God in the Torah

[Jesus John]

Dear Brother RabbiBarry,

I have some questions about God from the Torah. I am asking this questions to you because you have a great substructure on the Torah and the blick of Judaism.

Dear Brother,

I saw some verses about God in the Torah which conflicts my belief. How do we have to get the meaning; literally or figuratively?


Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made

*How can God rest?

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden

*How can God walk? How can a created hid themselve from God?

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

*How can God dont know where his created is?

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

*How can God repent from his deeds? Dont he think right, does he do his job incomplete?

Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peni'el:for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

*How can God wrestle? How can he be beaten from his created?


Psa 78:65 Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.

*How can God awake? Is he sleeping? How can he shout as a mighty man by reason of wine?

Hos 12:2 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hos 12:3 yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Beth–el, and there he spake with us

*How can a created have a power like God and have a over power of an angel? How can a created prevailed God and an angel?

2 Sa 22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it
2 Sa 22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
2 Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared the foundations of the world were discovered at the rebuking of the LORD at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

*How can God have nostrils or a mouth and breath from them? How can he rode upon a cherub and fly?


Exo 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

*How can God give explanations about his deed?

Exo 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people

*How can God listen to his creatured as a child who listens his parents?

Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

*How can God forget his promise? Does God forget or need he to be reminded?

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

*How can God abandon from his thought? Does God do his job daily?


Thank you very much for your help and explanations.

With my full Respect,

Oguzhan

[David Kone]

Dear Oguzhan,

Just wanted to say thank you for the excellent questions! I have opinions about these very impotant passages but I am eager to hear from Rabbi Barry first. Gen 6:7 is one of my favorite verses as the concept of God repenting (changing direction) is the cornerstone of my faith.

[Danage]

If I may...

Originally Posted by Jesus John

Dear Brother RabbiBarry,

I have some questions about God from the Torah. I am asking this questions to you because you have a great substructure on the Torah and the blick of Judaism.

Dear Brother,

I saw some verses about God in the Torah which conflicts my belief. How do we have to get the meaning; literally or figuratively?

A great deal of the Tanakh is figurative.


Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made

*How can God rest?
This is never interpreted literally. G-d figuratively rested, i.e. He had finished, and hence needed to do no more, until He created the Race of Adam, after creating the first race of humans on the sixth 'day', or period of time, as I believe it originally said.
It also clearly gave the Jews the Sabbath/Shabbat laws. If G-d rests on the seventh day (Friday dusk to Saturday dusk, thereabouts), then so too must the Jews.

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden

*How can God walk? How can a created hid themselve from God?
People like to be able to be closer to G-d, and so describing Him as such gives a greater sense of connection and the fact that 'Man was made in His image'.

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

*How can God dont know where his created is?
G-d knows all, but to give a greatest sense of false security to Adam, or give Adam a chance to confess He acted ignorant. At least, that would be my guess.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

*How can God repent from his deeds? Dont he think right, does he do his job incomplete?
G-d sounds regretful in this passage for 'failing mankind' and so this could be sorrow.


Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
Gen 32:27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob
Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
Gen 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peni'el:for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

*How can God wrestle? How can he be beaten from his created?
This is figurative again, and is trying to give G-d a more 'human' nature.


Psa 78:65 Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.

*How can God awake? Is he sleeping? How can he shout as a mighty man by reason of wine?
The psalms of David are exactly that: psalms. They are songs and, although believed to be prophetic by some, are merely songs to others. The psalm is a song about the glory of the Lord, but it is not to be taken literally in this case.

Hos 12:2 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hos 12:3 yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Beth–el, and there he spake with us

*How can a created have a power like God and have a over power of an angel? How can a created prevailed God and an angel?
The person may have had some influence in this case.

2 Sa 22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it
2 Sa 22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
2 Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared the foundations of the world were discovered at the rebuking of the LORD at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

*How can God have nostrils or a mouth and breath from them? How can he rode upon a cherub and fly?
This is figurative again, and trying to connect man to G-d.


Exo 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

*How can God give explanations about his deed?
I don't understand the question. G-d is trying to be compassionate and wrathful at the same time, and wishes for the Israelites to be aware that they are protected from all the plagues, and hence should not fear Him.

Exo 32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people

*How can God listen to his creatured as a child who listens his parents?
The Lord is father, and humanity are His children. He can listen to His children as a father, or a son, however He chooses.

Exo 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

*How can God forget his promise? Does God forget or need he to be reminded?
G-d never forgets His promises, for He is omniscient.

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

*How can God abandon from his thought? Does God do his job daily?
The Lord constantly works.


Thank you very much for your help and explanations.

With my full Respect,

Oguzhan

While not being definitive, this is how I would interpret it.

[RabbiBarry]

*How can God rest?

In Exodus 31:17 expands on this concept with the words "v'ay yenaphash" which means "and took a breath". This passage refers not to Allah, but to the Archangel of the Presence, who gave the Torah. It says that this being whom we call Metatron took a breath. YHVH took the breath. He is Metatron. He is not El Elyon, whom you might call Allah.

*How can God walk? How can a created hid themselve from God?

This passage is even clearer to those who understand the nature of G-d. Allah does not walk, he does not have a body, he is not subject to human concerns and he is far away. Origen, the great Church Father, mentor of Arius taught that G-d the Father was far away. Now the Son is much nearer. He is the Demiurge or the Archangel of the Presence or YHVH or Metatron. Like G-d, He many names. This passage says that YHVH of the Angels (Elohim) walked in the garden. It was not G-d that walked, but the Creator, the Demiurge, The Son who walked with Adam.

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

*How can God dont know where his created is?

Again, we are talking about the Son, but this question is rhetorical. The Son knows where Adam is. He is hiding. They are not playing hide and seek. The Son is putting Adam on the spot.

[i]*How can God repent from his deeds? Dont he think right, does he do his job incomplete?

Of course, G-d, the Father, cannot make mistakes. But the Son can. He is not omniscience. Therefore, like the other Archangels, he cannot see infinitely into the future. He repented if his Creation, but he did not destroy man. You will find that he repented again when he was going to destroy Nineveh.

*How can God wrestle? How can he be beaten from his created?

You see how the error is compounded. The word again refers to the Archangel. We know he is the Son. He can wrestle.


Psa 78:65 Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.

In verse 59, we find who we are speaking of here. The word is "elohim". When it used, it normally means "the Archangels" because they are the G-ds of Heaven in whose council YHVH arises. They awake because they are capable of lethargy. But they do not sleep in the normal sense of the word. They go, like a computer, into rest mode.

*How can a created have a power like God and have a over power of an angel? How can a created prevailed God and an angel?

Exodus 23:20 specifically tells us that an Archangel does have the power of G-d. So your conception of Archangels is wrong.

[*How can God have nostrils or a mouth and breath from them? How can he rode upon a cherub and fly?

Again, it is the Archangel, the one called the Son.


*How can God give explanations about his deed?

Moses was a prophet. A prophet not only speaks for G-d, but is an intercessor for the people. He can ask G-d why he does things. It is part of his office.

*How can God listen to his creatured as a child who listens his parents?

Because, YHVH is a parent and knows that the creatures are his children.

*How can God forget his promise? Does God forget or need he to be reminded?

All prayers like this are appropriate. One should remind a judge of the law which he knows. One should remind a king of the duties he has. One should remind a father of the things he must do. And it is appropriate to remind G-d of his promises. I do regularly.

Rabbi Barry Albin

[dark_knight]

I pretty much agree with reverend Rabbi, except I believe that YHVH means El Elyon / Allah / God the Father. Son, or the Archangel is the one who was the practical instrument of creation, but Father is the true Creator. Son is sometimes called YHVH, or the Angel of YHVH, one in whom the Name is invested. However, YHVH is God the Father, and like the Shema says, He is only One, Echad.

[David Kone]

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God rest?

We of course can not come close to understanding the nature of the High God of all infinite existence we can speculate that those things that He sets in motion do not require constant application of power or control. Power and control are not as important as the intelligence that directs those things. Therefore He can do as he wills with perfect effect whether it is by doing or not doing.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God walk? How can a created hid themselve from God?

Do agree with Rabbi Barry here. This is the manifestation of the High God. In modern technical term we might say God, in His infinite wisdom, created a human interface device so he could direct us at our level without overcoming us with his power. I can not tell you what I do not know but it does seem that those who say that this was the first born of the Father have a compelling case.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God dont know where his created is?

He was posing a strikingly direct question to Adam who at the time was feeling very, very lost.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

[/i]
*How can God repent from his deeds? Dont he think right, does he do his job incomplete?

The perfection of the First Born is relative to the perfection of the Father and that of man. God the Father is Perfection itself. The First Born is much like us, man, only billions of times smarter, and compassionate, and understanding. He like life, for he is the light and life of the world, is adaptive. He learns each step of the way only at a rate that is incomprehensible to us. This is the only way to explain the rapid adaptation of some species that defies the laws of Darwinism.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can a created have a power like God and have a over power of an angel? How can a created prevailed God and an angel?

Angel even Archangels are here to serve us.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God have nostrils or a mouth and breath from them? How can he rode upon a cherub and fly?

The true nature of God is not understandable to man because we have nothing in our experience that we can truly compare Him to. We are stuck with metaphorical expressions which in some way communicates aspect of Him. Even calling God Him is foolish but it expresses in terms of things we understand what attributes He has. We use this term not because He has a gender but because He is seen at times as the active principle in the universe which is a quality that is associated with males. As strange as this image of God having nostrils etc., I assure you it is nowhere as strange as the true nature of God.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God give explanations about his deed?

He is our Great Teacher. What kind of teacher does not answer questions? “Ask and you will receive.”

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God listen to his creatured as a child who listens his parents?

He does this very well indeed. When Cain slew Able God heard Cain’s blood crying. If he hears blood cells how much more does he listen to his children.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God forget his promise? Does God forget or need he to be reminded?

Last I noticed they are still multiplying. What He promises he delivers. We rarely understand His promises.

Originally Posted by Jesus John

*How can God abandon from his thought? Does God do his job daily?

God is the God of life. Life exists only in the moment. He is the Master of each moment perfectly adapting; we should follow His example. He has emotions. He is a real sentient being in every respect as we are also being created in His image. Unlike us He is of self existence. Our existence depends wholly on Him. What he thinks is. If he thinks of us no more then we are no more. Some find the possibility of extinction scary I am very grateful to have been thought of at all.