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  #1  
Old 22nd June 2008
Danage Danage is offline
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Reason:
Quote:
Composer is insulting our Muslim friends in this post.
Post: God Promises a Prophet like Moses (May God's Peace and Light upon him)
Forum: Textual Criticism & Scriptural Theology
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Posted by: Composer
Original Content:
Quote:
More signs of apparent non-aggressive behaviour in the Qur'an (so say some?) -

004.034
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

So beat women until they submit and obey their male masters says the Qur'an! (apparently that isn't counted by some as aggression, hmm?)
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Old 23rd June 2008
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Question Definition required!

Can someone please clarify the Qu'ran's definition of what is NOT "obedient" in this passage?

In Islam infidelity was a stoning offense as it was in Judaism.
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Old 25th June 2008
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icon_neutral Racism?

This stranger's tone is reminiscent of Nick Griffin of the British National Party!

He seems to attack everyone who doesn't fit-in with his own perception of what we should all believe in!

Hmmm!
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Matt 7:13-14 NRSV “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” cf. Luke 13:24.
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Old 26th June 2008
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I work with folks from every corner of this planet. Many of them are Muslim women none of which appear to be the least bit beaten or threatened. I am also aware that here in the states there are too many women hiding in women's shelters in extreme fear that their "Christian" husbands will find them. I trust that our friend treats the women in his life with respect. I hope that they are not made to feel inferior because they do not share his views. Hypocrisy seems to be the trademark of those who have a monopoly on virtue.

I am certain that the majority of the Muslim men who visit this site are of good character, that they respect and honor women. If there is any man who comes here, regardless of their religious affiliation, that disrespects women let us work to bring them to a higher understanding through the method of good “Christian” council.

No one is improved by criticism alone, including our friend who repeatedly offends others while pretending that he is doing it for their own good. I pray that he sees the light and begins to understand that this forum is a great opportunity for us to heal some of the historic wounds that exist between our cultures. Fault finding is easy work; let us all go the extra mile to support the good in each other.
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Old 26th June 2008
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Dear Kurgan,

The Arabic word "daraba" is translated in "beat" in this verse. But this word can be translated in another other meaning like "take them out from home" This several meanings come from the magnificient style of the Arabic language, some words may have lots of meaning. The Islamic era is divided in two pieces about the translation in the word "daraba" The new age Islamic scholars say that Muhammad (Pbuh) was sent to a nation which was insulting women and were giving them a second right. They were using women like goods, beating and after they had used them they were throwing them out of their lifes without giving any money or etc. Muhammed never beated his wives and never advised to beat them. For the new age scholars it is impossible that Muhammad advised his companions to beat their wives because he was sended to a nation which was already beating them. Islam came to survive women of this position and it finally did. In the Qur'an there is no surah/section called "men", but there is a surah called "Nisa (Women)" There are lots of verses which tell the rights of the women in Islam. If you should read the Qur'an you should see that Islam have given lots of rights to women 1400 years ago which is already given today.

Islam gives right to women for not to work when they are single or married. If she lives with her family his father is responsible in her all needs, if her father is died her brothers and her relatives are responsible, if she marry her husband is responsible. Women have right not to give milk to her child, if this happens her husband has to find a woman to feed the child. Also women have right not to wash the dishes or to clean the house. All of this are in the responsibility of the husbands. For this all reasons women get a half right of the heritage than men. Because men is responsible of lots of things. But the enemies of Islam always claim that Islam insult women. This is a great lie!

Women have to listen his husband in things which he say in truth. For Muslims the only truth is the Qur'an and the deeds of Muhammad. Because one of them are the words of God, the other is the deeds of God's apostle. If God and his apostle give a decision about a subject there is no right for a believer man and woman to choose another choice. If a woman doesnt listen his husband in his true requests he first has to talk with her, if she doesnt listen man have a right to let his woman alone in the bed, if she again doesnt listen her man he has a right to "beat" her. But if we give a meaning of than they have a right to take them out of home it will be more sensible (Allah knows the best)

The Composer -which I denie his/her compose and advise to change his/her nick- picks the verses out of text. Now here under I will write them all, the verses are the translation of Muhammad Asad;

"Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them* and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!

* It is evident from many authentic Traditions that the Prophet himself intensely detested the idea of beating one's wife, and said on more than one occasion, "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim). According to another Tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, "Never beat God's handmaidens" (Abu Dawud, Nasai, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban and Hakim, on the authority of Iyas ibn Abd Allah; Ibn Hibban, on the authority of Abd Allah ibn Abbas; and Bayhaqi, on the authority of Umm Kulthum) When the above Qur'an-verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said: "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing - and what God has willed must be best" (see Manar V, 74) With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct", and that it should be done "in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)"; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Nasai and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the authorities stress that this "beating", if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic - "with a toothbrush, or some such thing" (Tabari, quoting the views of scholars of the earliest times), or even "with a folded handkerchief" (Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g., Ash-Shafii) are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the Prophet's personal feelings with regard to this problem.

And if you have reason to fear that a breach might occur between a [married] couple, appoint an arbiter from among his people and an arbiter from among her people; if they both want to set things aright, God may bring about their reconciliation. Behold, God is indeed all-knowing, aware" (4:34-35)

May our Lord forgive us and accept us to His heaven (Amen)

Oguzhan
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  #6  
Old 26th June 2008
Danage Danage is offline
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Default Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archbishop View Post
This stranger's tone is reminiscent of Nick Griffin of the British National Party!

He seems to attack everyone who doesn't fit-in with his own perception of what we should all believe in!

Hmmm!
I couldn't agree more. His racist and religiously prejudiced attitudes are a disgrace. May Eloah (God) touch his heart and bring him to the divine Truth!
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