Arian Catholic Theological Society (ACTS) Forums  

Go Back   Arian Catholic Theological Society (ACTS) Forums > Arian Catholicism > Dispute on Apostasies & Heresies of Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant & assoc'd churches
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Dispute on Apostasies & Heresies of Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant & assoc'd churches Disputation of Rev Dr Brian B Michael John Mackenzie-Hanson on the Legitimacy of the twenty-one Ecumenical Councils, the Divinity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, the Petrine Primacy, the Virgin Birth, Idolatry and other Apostasies and Heresies recognised and advocated in whole or in part by the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant and associated churches in the face of our Lord’s immutable and irreformable Church. [By letter addressed to the heads of all churches dated Wednesday 31st October 2007]

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 15th March 2012
Hermes's Avatar
Hermes Hermes is offline
Presbyter (Full Member)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 256
Hermes is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Ah thanks it's difficult to get the emphasis right without further explanation sometimes. So Arian Catholics are not suggesting that we go to church on a saturday instead of sundays but to honour the sabbath as well?

Thanks for the welcome.
Of course I can't say for certain for Arian Catholics, but I would imagine it's similar to the Eastern style: Saturday vigil on Saturday evening (at the end of Sabbath) and then Sunday morning/noon service.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16th March 2012
Eusebius's Avatar
Eusebius Eusebius is offline
Deacon (Junior Member)
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Risca, Newport, S Wales.
Posts: 5
Eusebius is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
...it's similar to the Eastern style: Saturday vigil on Saturday evening...and then Sunday morning/noon service.
Yes of course, that would make perfect sense.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16th March 2012
Archiepiscopate Michael-John's Avatar
Archiepiscopate Michael-John Archiepiscopate Michael-John is offline
Archiepiscopate Primus Inter Pares
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Anlaby, East Riding of Yorkshire, England, GB.
Posts: 2,319
Archiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Archiepiscopate Michael-John
Exclamation Saturday Sabbath and the Passover

The Arian Catholic Church goes further than the 4th - 8th century Gothic Arian Church, which was under constant struggle against the Roman church, as we hold to the the old, historical, apostolic traditions given to us by Christ and the Apostles. The commandment from God is to keep the Sabbath day Holy. We do not recognise any of the changes to doctrine imposed by the apostate post apostolic ecumenical councils.

It is of course evident that the Inquisition was extremely busy torturing and executing Arians and Judaisers in Christendom including a Welsh monastery which continued to observe the Saturday Sabbath and the Quartodeciman Passover.

The Sabbath begins at sunset of the Friday evening and ends at sundown on the Saturday evening. This is in accordance with the early church.

Be careful when reading biblical references to services taking place on the evening of the Sabbath [Saturday Night], because remember in those times the day always began from sunset with Evening, followed by Night, then Morning and Afternoon.

We also observe the Lord's day on Sundays in memory of the resurrection of Christ. This is a separate thing to the Sabbath. We also recognise that the Law was made for mankind and not mankind for the Law; it is impossible for everyone to do no work at all on the Sabbath and even Christ encouraged his disciples to pick ears of corn on the Sabbath because they were hungry. Therefore, we emphasis the need to keep the Sabbath Holy and refrain from doing any unnecessary work on this day, Sabbath observance on the Friday evening after sunset also fulfills this requirement.

I will next post a transcript from a very informative read about the history of the Sabbath called: "Sabbath Diagnosis" by C Gary Hullquist (Jan 2004), in which he quotes from the Codex of Justinian, Polycrates and some more contemporary historians.

You will see that it is quite clear that the decision to adopt the Trinitarian doctrine, Sunday as the Sabbath day and Easter in place of Passover was born entirely out of blatant anti-semitism, politics and greed for power and mammon. You will also see that the Churches that held to the old doctrines that were given to them by St John and St Philip were threatened; and in those days a threat was serious!
__________________
Michael-John

Mt Rev Dr Michael-John Mackenzie, BA (Hons), DD, MIOP, acOSB
Archiepiscopate - Primus Inter Pares
Senior Overseer - First Among Equals
Arian Catholic Church and Theological Society
Archdiocese of York (incorporating Northern England and Scotland)


Matt 7:13-14 NRSV “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” cf. Luke 13:24.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16th March 2012
Archiepiscopate Michael-John's Avatar
Archiepiscopate Michael-John Archiepiscopate Michael-John is offline
Archiepiscopate Primus Inter Pares
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Anlaby, East Riding of Yorkshire, England, GB.
Posts: 2,319
Archiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond reputeArchiepiscopate Michael-John has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Archiepiscopate Michael-John
Lightbulb An extract from "Sabbath Diagnosis"

Sabbath Diagnosis, by C Gary Hullquist, (Jan 2004) pp 130-133.

The Decree of Constantine was immortalised in the Codex of Justinian:
"On the venerable day of the sun [Sunday] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed."
(Codex Justinius, lib.3, tit.12:3; translated by Phillip Schaff in History of the Christian Church, 1864, Vol.III, p.380).
"This legistaltion by Constantine probably bore no relation to Christianity; it appears, on the contrary, that the emperor, in his capacity as Pontifex Maximus [the title of the Pagan High Priest of Rome], was only adding the day of the sun, the worship of which was then firmly established in the Roman Empire, to the other festival days of the sacred calendar."
(Hutton Webster, Ph.D., Rest Days: The Christian Sunday, The Jewish Sabbath, And Their Historical and Anthropological Prototypes, 1916, pp. 122, 123).


Easter Origins

Catholicism has a long history of taking credit for the establishment of Sunday as the Christian day of Worship. This was accomplished by emphasising Easter while ruling against the Sabbath. We'll focus on three of the many councils convened over the centuries.

Eusebius, the early church historian who lived in the fourth century, relates that Bishop Sixtus of Rome was the first not to observe the Passover, and began observing Easter Sunday in its place (between AD 116-126). This was during the reign of Emperor Hadrian (AD 117-138), who adopted a Roman policy of radical repression of Jewish rites and customs.

Early Christians in most places observed the Jewish Passover, up until 135 AD and the second Roman conquest of Jerusalem, when the headquarters of the Jewish Church was finally closed, and Jews were banished from the city. The new Greek bishops appointed by the Romans to oversee the Gentile Christian church in Jerusalem, observed the Roman "Easter," thus provoking the controversy into sharp focus after 135 AD. By this time the "Easter" tradition was strong enough to challenge the authentic Passover truth of the apostles and their successors.

The first recorded attempt of the bishop at Rome to extend his rule over the entire Christian church was an edict regarding Sunday. All Christian churches celebrated Passover, but while the eastern churches observed it as God had instructed, upon the fourteenth day of the first Hebrew month regardless of which day of the week it might fall on (Quartodecimans), the western churches, following Rome's lead, kept it upon the Sunday following Good Friday (Quintadecimans).

About 154 AD Polycarp of Smyrna, who had observed the Passover with the apostle John and other original apostles, travelled to Rome to discuss the growing controversy arising between the church at Rome observing Easter, claiming Christ arose from the dead on that day, and the churches in the East which observed the apostolic tradition of Passover. The meeting with Anicetus ended in a deadlock, neither persuading the other to change.

Polycrates 130-196 AD
Later, in in the days of Victor, Bishop of Rome (189-199 AD), the dispute became very severe. In 196 Victor imposed this custom upon all churches, compelling them to keep Passover on Sunday at the threat of excommunication. Schaff-Herzog Encyclo-paedia of Religious Knowledge. Christians who continued to observe communion on Passover were labelled "Quartodecimans," meaning those who observed the "fourteenth," the day on which Passover was kept. This group, under the leadership of Polycrates, bishop of Ephesus, refused to fall into line with Rome's schedule for Easter on the Spring Equinox (in honour of the Sun's return from a wintery death).

Polycrates, representing the eastern bishops in Asia Minor, wrote to Victor, in reply to his blustering threats. Polycrates again appealed to the practice of the apostles Philip and John, to Polycarp (John's disciple), Thraseas, and many others, who had celebrated Passover on 14th of Nisan. He resolved that, on the basis of Scriptures, he would not be intimidated by Rome nor would he change.
"We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep [he speaks here of the death of many breathren], which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when He shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints.

Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and; moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacredotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. Why need I mention the bishop and martyr Sagaris who fell asleep in Laodicae, or the blessed Papirus, or Melito, the Eunuch who lived altogether in the Holy Spirit, and who lies in Sardis, awaiting the episcopate in heaven, when he shall rise from the dead? All these observed the fourteenth day of the Passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith.

And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said 'We ought to obey God rather that man.'"
(Eusebius of Caearea, Church History, Book V, ch. 24).
Victor immediately excommunicated the Asian bishops who refused to adopt the Easter Sunday tradition, and then for good measure he excommunicated all the churches of Asia as well.

Council of Nicaea 325 AD
The Controversy continued to boil in Christendom until the early fourth century. Then another heresy arose. Athanasius, a priest in Alexandria began to oppose the teachings of Arius, another priest who proposed a different nature for Christ that limited His divinity and emphasised His humanity. The fierce Arian controversy divided Christendom and eventually forced Emperor Constantine in AD 325 to call all the leading clergy of the empire to settle the dispute at the council of Nicaea, in Asia Minor.
"On the one side were the old, historical, apostolic traditions; on the other side, the new, Christian, Catholic spirit, striving to part company with its ancient Jewish birthplace. The Eastern Church, at least in part, took the former view, the Western Church, the latter view… The sight of some churches fasting on the same day when others were rejoicing, and of two Passovers in one year, was against the very idea of Christian unity. The celebration of it on the same day as was kept by the wicked race that put the Saviour to death was an impious absurdity… The Jewish practice must give way to the new innovation."
(Stanley "Eastern Church" lect. 5, p.54).
__________________
Michael-John

Mt Rev Dr Michael-John Mackenzie, BA (Hons), DD, MIOP, acOSB
Archiepiscopate - Primus Inter Pares
Senior Overseer - First Among Equals
Arian Catholic Church and Theological Society
Archdiocese of York (incorporating Northern England and Scotland)


Matt 7:13-14 NRSV “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” cf. Luke 13:24.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 Rev Dr M J Mackenzie-Hanson, BA (Hons), DD, acOSB