bible canon?

[miseretur]

Joh 8:44 You belong to your father the devil, and you want to carry out the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and has never stood by the truth, since there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie he speaks in character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Although Jesus speaks here Pharisees, so it fits all of the rest of those who deny Christ. And belive Satans lies, just as Adam in paradise.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

Do you understand that these are basick gnostic belives.
Have you ever read gnostic text, or talking whit them, try to speak them good news abot Jesus our Lord and the gospel.
Do you know that they belive, in immortal soul.
And they teach that, human will eventually become the god.
I have talking whit them ofthem, I have go their lecture, and in they little shop here in oulu. Have you ever thought to believe that, when they say that yes they believe in Jesus, but they do not believe what Jesus taught and was.Jesus is their only someone enlightened type.
Have you ever realized the fact how great was the threat of early parish, abot gnostic teachings. do you know gnostic cult, Carpocrates.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpocrates

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2Co 2:11 so that we may not be outsmarted by Satan. After all, we are not unaware of his intentions.

2Co 11:14 And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? The person who denies the Father and the Son is the antichrist.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world. They refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. Any such person is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2Ti 3:13-16.
But evil people and impostors will go from bad to worse as they deceive others and are themselves deceived.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and found to be true, because you know from whom you learned it.

From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures that are able to give you the wisdom you need for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

This is not a question of who is a hundred percent right and who is not.
I understand that you are a Muslim? Muslims, Jesus is also lower than the value of Mohammed.
Am I right, is just one prophet.
It is no wonder that you do not consent to listen to the Christian declaration of the fact that I say what the Bible says.
Sharia law will deny me of your refusal, or brothers.
The Koran is wrong, it is denying God's son existence.
Islamic religion is a mixed-religion, which has emerged so late that it already. Mohammed tours of war and the murders were political and his wives quantity referred more harem, and forced the offspring than a love.
Biblical authority, I weigh what is wrong and what is not, and if someone claims of Jesus something other than what the Bible says and the early tradition, it is clear that anyone who believes, would make the same.
If the Bible says something antichrist, so what am I to believe in things differently.
I would be a liar then.I do not try to please someone if hi is wrong and it is useless to try to blame me to the fundamentalists, because the Bible says that not me.Don 't you believe in the Koran, or do you belive it only when it suits you. I have also the right to tell here what the Bible says, and if you want, so perhaps the Muslim forum, you can say what the Koran says.
I do not will never agree to anything which is related gnostilaiseen worship of satan. Christianity's oldest enemy is Gnosticism, precisely because it disguised as Christianity.

2Co 10:3-5.
Of course, we are living in the flesh, but we do not fight in a fleshly way.

For the weapons of our warfare are not those of the flesh. Instead, they have the power of God to demolish fortresses. We tear down arguments

and every proud obstacle that is raised against the knowledge of God, taking every thought captive in order to obey Christ.

Eph 6:17 also take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

[Jesus John]

First thanks for your answer.

I want to declare that I have got no problem with any people what he believe in. This is his choice, everyone has a free will and mind, we have to respect.

In my earlier time I had no respect for the choices and tried to change their opinion. But now I have changed, the words of Jesus are in my heart as he said;

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:3-5)

I see that I have got a a big tree in my eye, therefore I stopped to judge people.

Also this verse from the Qur'an is in my heart;

"Do you bid other people to be pious, the while you forget your own selves and yet you recite the divine writ? Will you not, then, use your reason?" (2:44)

Yes I am a Muslim but you can also call me Christian or Jew in its real meaning. Jesus is not lower than Muhammad, this is wrong. Yes, maybe there is a believe around Muslims like you said but this isnt what the Qur'an say, it is false and this fault cant be presented as the view of Islam. Muhammad is only the last prophet of God, there were lots before, like Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus etc.

Of course there is a difference between us in Jesus. But I think we are close and have lots of similar features.

I appreciate your faith, you are devout in your believe and defending it. There is no problem for me.

Unfortunately, Islam is realy understood wrong today, but the greatest fault belongs to the Muslims. We couldnt present us like Muhammad and his companions did in the earlier time. We mostly gone astray, do not read the Qur'an right. There are still people who kill lots of innocent people (while it is forbidden) and call themselve as Muslim. I do not support them, therefore I also am a heretic in their sight and maybe can be murdered.

The word Islam has a wide meaning, one of them is peace. Salaam and Islam are same in origin. We use "salaam alaikoum" to salut eachother, we say "as-salaamou alaikoum wa rahmatoullah" to our right and left side (reference to our circle) to finish our prayer. These all means "I am in peace, be in peace"

Peace is good and as I remember Jesus said;

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." (Matthew 5:9)

By the way I think that Jesus mean the inner peace, because a person who is not comfortable in his skin cant make peace at the outside. First inside, after this the outside.

What you say about Muhammad is really wrong. Muhammad had 12 wives.
He didnt have any sex with a woman till he married a widow with a age of 40 when he was 25. He didnt marry with anyone else while this marriage continued. When he became to the age of 50 his wife died. After this death he married with another widow and keep going on with only one wife till 3 years passed. When he was 53 he married with a virgin girl which was around 19 years old, presented like 7 (as a child) today. In the Arabic countries a girls age is counted when she become adolescent (a stage between childhood and adulthood) She was called 7 but the physical age was 19. Only one wive was virgin and young, the others were widow and had childs. His poly marriages were between the ages of 53-63. What a great age to be hot isnt it?

As we know a person is mostly hot at his youth. Now, if Muhammad was a slave to his sexual will, why did he marry with a 40 age widow when he could marry with a younger and virgin girl? Why did he keep going on with one wife while it was very normal to marry with many woman in his society?

By the way why to they insult Muhammad for being poly married? Didnt Abraham had 2 wive at the same time (3 totall) ? What about Isaac, Jacob and Moses? Are they aware that they are insulting the others when they say words against Muhammad?

It is clear that Muhammad had poly marriages for political issues, there is no evidence for a sexual will. This is really dishonest and immoraly.

When Muhammad began to preach Islam when he was 40 years old (a young age) and choosen as the last prophet, the famous leaders of his society came to him and asked to stop preaching Islam around the land. They offered him the most beautiful women to stop it. But do you know what he said?

"I swear on God who holds my life in His hand, if you will put the sun on my right, the moon on my left I will never give up"

Love,

Oguzhan

[miseretur]

Jesus observed: “Moses, out of regard for your hardheartedness, made the concession to you of divorcing your wives, but such has not been the case from the beginning.” (Matthew 19:8)
The same can be said of polygamy. It was not “the case from the beginning.” “Did you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.”—Matthew 19:4-6.

Jesus thus confirmed the original standard for marriage. (Matthew 19:3-8) The Bible further shows that an overseer in the Christian congregation must, if married, be “a husband of one wife.” Likewise, the “widow” should also have been the “wife of one husband.”

This is further evidence that monogamy is the standard for all Christians. Overseers, as “examples to the flock,” cannot claim that their position of oversight entitles them to a standard for marriage different from the one for others in the congregation. (1 Timothy 3:2; 5:9; 1 Peter 5:3) So Christian options are clearly either singleness or monogamy.
Either is perfectly acceptable to God.
(1 Corinthians 7:8, 9) Polygamy, though, is quite out of the question.

This divine standard gives dignity to both men and women.
Married women need not anxiously fear that their husbands will take secondary wives.
Nor does a single Christian woman contemplate becoming someone’s secondary wife—even when there are few unmarried men locally. She waits until she can “have her own husband.
” (1 Corinthians 7:2) Yes, marriage mates truly belong to each other.
They can unitedly provide a wholesome and balanced family life for their children.—1 Peter 3:7; Ephesians 5:21-31; 6:1-4.


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Polygamy in the Bible

God allowed polygamy for a time, as it contributed to the fulfillment of his promise to Abraham: “I shall make a great nation out of you.” (Genesis 12:2; Exodus 1:7) At that time, Abraham’s wife, Sarah, was childless.
Eventually, she pleaded with Abraham to produce offspring by her slave girl, Hagar. Interestingly, the Bible clearly describes the problems that this brought upon Abraham’s household.—Genesis 16:5, 6; 21:8-10.

As for Jacob, Abraham’s grandson, he intended to marry only one woman, Rachel. (Genesis 44:27) It was Jacob’s father-in-law, Laban, who tricked him into marrying both of Laban’s daughters, Rachel and Leah. (Genesis 29:21-28) And it was upon the urging of these wives that Jacob produced offspring by having relations with their maidservants, Bilhah and Zilpah. Again, the Bible does not hide the many problems polygamy brought upon Jacob’s large household.—Genesis 29:30, 31; 30:1-3, 15, 16, 20; 37:2-4; 44:20-29.

The Bible also records the story of Elkanah, who was the father of Samuel the prophet, and Elkanah’s two wives, Hannah and Peninnah. Hannah was treated so unkindly by Peninnah that she would often cry and lose her appetite. Peninnah, for her part, was apparently jealous because Elkanah showed more love for Hannah.—1 Samuel 1:4-7.

Indeed, the custom of polygamy has caused hardship. While it was tolerated among God’s ancient people, the Bible clearly shows whether God originally intended that man should be polygamous.

[miseretur]

yes I am aware of the importance of Islam.I can not know everything because I am not a Muslim, and my interest in religion as such has not been very high.
Yes I own the Koran, though it is not Arabic, but translated into Finnish, that is not the Koran, which some Muslims say
Is not the Muslim confession of faith make the difference, that over the allah is just one prophet.
Koran yes to defend Jesus, as opposed to what are doing Jewish texts such as Talmud, etc., etc.
The Jews really hate Jesus. a friend of mine was beaten up in Israel, when he spoke there, about Jesus.
And one friend of mine was beaten up in Turkey where he became a Christian, now he is a refugee with no homeland.

I apologize for the deliberately provocative to you.
I wanted to find out how to easily can Muslim get angry if I tell them the disadvantages of Mohammed.
In fact I get "mad" when someone common people explain me , how he has found the Bible secrets, when he has read the Dan Brown book da vinci code,
Here in Finland, almost half the Lutheran believes gnostilaisiin delusional doctrines and re incarnation.
Gnosticism has really come here to these new age movements involved.

When I did study as a book mentioned an interesting question.
if arian interpretation would be won, so the church would then be changed only in philosophical debate club.
Sometimes I wonder, could it be right that, what is question also about this forum?
In fact, I am concerned about the st john divine church, what that is doing in arian communion?
That movement is dangerous, I tell you...
but still dear muslim friend, bible tell us:
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live in peace with all people.

Lord be with you

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by miseretur

yes I am aware of the importance of Islam.I can not know everything because I am not a Muslim, and my interest in religion as such has not been very high.
Yes I own the Koran, though it is not Arabic, but translated into Finnish, that is not the Koran, which some Muslims say
Is not the Muslim confession of faith make the difference, that over the allah is just one prophet.
Koran yes to defend Jesus, as opposed to what are doing Jewish texts such as Talmud, etc., etc.
The Jews really hate Jesus. a friend of mine was beaten up in Israel, when he spoke there, about Jesus.
And one friend of mine was beaten up in Turkey where he became a Christian, now he is a refugee with no homeland.

I apologize for the deliberately provocative to you.
I wanted to find out how to easily can Muslim get angry if I tell them the disadvantages of Mohammed.
In fact I get "mad" when someone common people explain me , how he has found the Bible secrets, when he has read the Dan Brown book da vinci code,
Here in Finland, almost half the Lutheran believes gnostilaisiin delusional doctrines and re incarnation.
Gnosticism has really come here to these new age movements involved.

When I did study as a book mentioned an interesting question.
if arian interpretation would be won, so the church would then be changed only in philosophical debate club.
Sometimes I wonder, could it be right that, what is question also about this forum?
In fact, I am concerned about the st john divine church, what that is doing in arian communion?
That movement is dangerous, I tell you...
but still dear muslim friend, bible tell us:
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live in peace with all people.

Lord be with you

We've apparently read the same book. That man who wrote the question has been one of the most horrible sources on Arianism that I've seen, and if I remember correct, he's supposed to be a Lutheran ex-bishop. A bishop of the same church of which you said that almost half the members are mostly gnostic. Talk about the irony!

If he believes the early church was a "philosophical debate club" (which he doesn't, but rather calls his newer doctrine "tradition", even though it wasn't even taught in the early church), then he would be correct. Then again if the early church was a "philosophical debate club", then Lutherans are certainly on the correct path!

Then again, to be serious for a moment, people are criticizing the doctrines that have been spoon fed to them. I say that it's a very healthy thing. If people hadn't started it, then we would be worshipping Mary the Mother of God as a goddess and paying indulgences to Rome. We as human beings should never stop searching for what is true, even if the truth would lead us away from Christianity altogether. Otherwise we might as well give up our capability to observe and become parts of a mindless mass. There is a threat on the search to be lead away from what is true, but it's better rather than stay out of the truth by just being forced to believe whatever some feudal lord or a powerhungry religious leader wants you to believe.

[miseretur]

Seems to be the same book (Fredrik Nielsen. Church History 1913)
Lutheran was a time and a place in history. I think the faith cleaning was a good catalyst for future events.(reformation).
Lutheran theological weakest link is, the so-called two-regiment doctrine, the church has committed it's own hands and gave them to devil this world god, who is satan.
Joh 14:30 I will not talk with you much longer, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me

2Co 4:4 In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe to keep them from seeing the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God.

Mainstream Christianity is like POLICY party that seeks only to keep the power which it is delivered, even if people are lost.
Many priests today do not differ in any way, a child who speaks only the angels and God
How stupid they are thinking that ordinary people are.
This responsibility is rotated until the end.
The same bug is Greek Orthodox and Catholic.
Sheep without shepherds , but who is the sheep here
The last scandalized what the Lutheran church did, it was that the Campaign logo was chosen, the picture which makes a woman's sex organ

Rev 17:5 On her forehead was written a secret name: "Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes and Detestable Things of the Earth."

all religions are exactly the same harlot.
but false christianity is the worst. I think....