Why Be Contentious?

[Br. Thomas]

Just asking but I was wondering why the ACC feels the need to be contentious in regards to the "Arian Creed"? I mean it is obviously a "opposite" rendition of the an already heretical Creed which was rejected by St. Arius. So why not simply, like wise, reject it and simple stay with the Apostle's Creed?

With the Love of Christ,
+Br. Thomas :reveek:

[David Kone]

I am unaccustomed to creeds of any kind. So the recitation of any creed seems odd to me but I have taken the time to look at many creeds in an effort to understand their purpose. It is my understanding that before 300 CE almost every church had its own. When Constantine decided to standardize Christianity the creeds were issues of local pride. What ever was his intention it opened up a Pandora’s Box. Each subsequent counsel that met to create a universal creed added more verbiage than unanimity. The creeds grew longer and longer but the contentiousness continued. Eventually all significant opposition was suppressed but it never went entirely away.

The other night while listening to a friend who works as a psychotherapist I asked her to repeat something she had just said because it seemed to be germane to the task of the Arian Catholic church's need to present its beliefs to a public that has been raised on erroneous beliefs. She said something to the effect that when she counsels her clients she must balance the need to establish a good rapport with the necessity to confront cognitive distortions. This statement summarizes the general task of any instructive body that must present its ideas in a manner that will be heard.

Originally the creed was a way of establishing rapport between members of a congregation. It reiterated the key beliefs that their small community held. It was what the members had learned and it was what they taught their children. When politics entered the church, for the many churches that suddenly were accused of heresy, the spirit of community they had once enjoyed was now replaced with the spirit of contentiousness. The Arian Catholic Creed for the most part states those things that most Christians today believe. The line that paraphrases the trinity statement of belief with non-Trinitarian language states what makes us unique as a church of common believers.

...Was not consubstantial nor co-eternal with God the Father almighty, ...

Unfortunately it is just as confrontational as the statement it replaces was meant to be towards the Arian Christians. I would hope we are not going to fall into the same pit they have dug in our attempts to pull them out. The question is whether the Creed, which has the primary function of bonding the Christian body, is the best place to confront the faulty beliefs of those outside of our church? For those who are already Arians Catholics it is singing to the choir and to the Trinitarians who walk in our door it is the beginning of the spirit of contentiousness which works against what we gather for. I would be content with simply stating that he was a man anointed of God the Father, but I am far too Spartan for most folks. The main thing to me is to let people know about our love of God and then perhaps after services invite them to learn about our theology, not so as to hide our beliefs but rather to control the spirit of our services. That way we may have a better chance to prove with our hearts the error of their beliefs.

[Br. Thomas]

Thank You Br. David for you insightful response. I am very inclined to agree with you on much of what you shared.

Yes , our living Testimony SHOULD be our primary witness of the Love of Christ to the world. and

Yes. even If Christ was the very first thought of God there would STILL be a apoint at which Christ was not in existence therefore both God and Christ can not be "co-eternal" for the very fact that Christ, like all else, owes His existence to God.

I have posted a new thread entitled "Nicene Creed-An Alternate Translation" that I think could go a long way in assisting the new "Arian" convert in making the transition from the Nicene Faith to the Ante-Nicene Christian Faith. Admittedly the only problem I am having with it is the " true God form true God" line. I would encourage you to review it an off your perspctive.

With the Love of Christ,
+Br. Thomas
:reveek:

[Archbishop Michael-John]

>:-O Dear Brothers Thomas and David,

First of all "What is a Creed?" A creed is a statement of belief! The word comes from the Latin "Credo" which means "I believe". Like any organisation that has a set purpose it is akin to a Constitution, and in the case of a church it defines the fundamental beliefs and doctrines of the church which serves to align people's beliefs and reminds us of the most important teachings of the church.

Why have a Creed at all? The most famous creed was the Apostles' creed. Although not written by the Apostles it is traditionally attributed to them. It is the first official creed of the early church and was devised out of necessity because the church was expanding quickly, and many people who were being converted to Christianity from Paganism were still hanging on to certain pagan beliefs and superstitions. The last thing the church wanted was for Christo-Pagan sects to emerge because someone had attempted to integrate elements of paganism with Christianity!!! It therefore became necessary to lay down a set of fundamental beliefs of the church in order to guide people.

Nicaean-Roman Controversy
Since the Apostles' Creed numerous other creeds began to spring up, not least in the fourth century to try to enforce trinitarianism (an example of Chrito-Paganism!) and suppress opposition from Arianists.

During Arius' time there were eleven creeds which were put forward by St Arius and other Arian Bishops, however Arius himself re-iterated his first confession / creed. This was deemed necessary at the time because of the controversy over the belief in the divinity of Christ. The creed, once agreed upon, would serve to align the church (or split it)!

http://arian-catholic.org/arian/arianism.html#11_arian_confessions

The Apostles' Creed although it was written at the end of the second century contains the minimum of Christian belief, be it presented in a more supernatural context than the Arian Catholic Creed, it is recognised by the Arian Catholic Church as it was the creed of the early Church, it is non-trinitarian and contains all the essential elements of Christian belief.

http://arian-catholic.org/arian/worship.html#apostles_creed

The Arian Catholic Creed was developed to resolve issues over the trinitarian / Nicaean-Roman Controversy and follows on from the Apostles creed, it addresses the points raised by Arius (and in that respect responds to the heretical Nicene Creed) and represents the AC Church in a more logical context.

http://arian-catholic.org/arian/arian-introduction.html#arian_creed
http://arian-catholic.org/arian/worship.html#creed

Both creeds are recognised and used by the Arian Catholic Church.

In the grace of God through Immanuel.
:reveek:

[brotherkev]

yeah on old website, I had the Apostles creed, since I wanted nothing which dealt with the pagan garbage of the trinitarians...

so it will be interesting with the Arian creed.. and which is this, his 1st, since there were several during the 4th & 5th centuries that deal with the Arians while they held some influence..