A poll [Archive] - Arian Catholic Theological Society (ACTS) Forums

dark_knight

17th December 2006, 02:40 PM

dark_knight

17th December 2006, 02:45 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both X
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes X
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah X
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man X
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No X
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes X
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe X
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom X
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

David Kone

19th December 2006, 07:58 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcendent
I do not think this means that God is unknowable.
c) Both x
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same as the God of the New Testament?
a) yes x
However, I am coming to question whether some parts of the Old Testament have anything to do with God.
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah x
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___ ________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordinary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abandoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what?
Jesus was a man of extraordinary character, who was anointed, that is made Christ, by the Father because he deserved the appellation “Son of God” and he fulfilled the pre-existent will of his Father thereby providing a pure expression on earth of God’s will, as Messiah he brought spiritual salvation to us from the Father. Terms such as king, prophet, priest, teacher, even magician that were used to describe him in his lifetime do not do true justice to the mystical relationship that he fulfills between us and the Father.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes x
b) No x
c) I want to explain ... but can not.

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisiacal condition?
a) yes x
Crafted into a paradisiacal state.
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what?
I do not like the term wicked. It is loaded with bias. It comes from the same word root as wise. It would be preferable to use a concrete example such as someone turning a child away from God. Such a person would possibly face something like ‘c’.
Eternal torture in fiery hell is an invention used to scare people into obeying the rules of the church. Gehanna was a waist dump outside of Jerusalem that was kept always burning. Things that were thrown into the fire were simply burnt then they existed no more.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millennial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why?
To repent is to turn back from error and to get back on the correct path. This is something that we can only do in life for it is more than just saying I am sorry it requires making life choices. I was not raised to believe in reincarnation as it is commonly understood. Bodily resurrection is a particular form of reincarnation which I was taught. My understanding is that the number of those chosen to return during the first resurrection, the millennial period, is limited (Revelation 20:4). At the second resurrection, however, when Satan is loosed for a short period of time to test men’s souls, maybe the rest will have a second chance to get things right. Most of those who are not perfect saints will probably still be well taken care of by our loving Heavenly Father. Christ will sit in judgment not only as a fair prosecutor but also as a great advocate. He will be able to explain our short comings far better than we would be able to.
o:)

dark_knight

20th December 2006, 10:59 AM

Thanks for your thorough answers David!
I just want to say, that though I understand and speak english quite fluently, some expressions are still partly alien to me, i.e I cannot tell for sure what emotions the word "wicked" brings into anglo-saxon mind - Thus I chose the expression 'wicked', because I found it in the English Bible. :o
In finnish (my native tongue), there isn't quite the word 'wicked', there is only "bad", "evil", "evil-doer" or "unrigteouss".

No when I consider the point you gave, I think the term "unrighteouss" would do most justice to the Scriptural point of our studies, but would not be so harsh. Some may even dislike that term, but then again, if we are christians (this is my understanding of the term!) we just 'have' to admit that the people who are 'unrighteouss' (yet at least) are those who have not acceptted Jesus as their personal Saviour ARE indeed in unrighteouss state. All people are by nature, sinners - whater they admit or not. "May he who has not sinned, cast the first stone" (John ch.8 pseudo-canonic).
But Christ carried our sins as a perfect and final sacrifical Lamb, so we have right to be called (be adopted!) as God's children, for the sake of our faith in Jesus Christ :)

Furthermore, I believe that when Jesus said that "all who are in the graves will be raised. Some to ressurection of life (these I believe are his true disciples) and others to ressurection of judgement (and I believe that the judgement day lasts thousand years in which time all will have their true chance to believe the gospel)" John ch.5.

Here are some points!

Thanks very much.

P.S

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what?
I do not like the term wicked. It is loaded with bias. It comes from the same word root as wise. It would be preferable to use a concrete example such as someone turning a child away from God. Such a person would possibly face something like ‘c’.
Eternal torture in fiery hell is an invention used to scare people into obeying the rules of the church. Gehanna was a waist dump outside of Jerusalem that was kept always burning. Things that were thrown into the fire were simply burnt then they existed no more.

o:)

Brother, you didn't quite answer :D Or if you meant you believe that those who will ultimately be 'damned' are cast to the Gehenna which means they will be utterly destroyed, you could have picked 'c' because that's what I also meant with that option. Neverthless, good thing that you explained the gehenna issue!

David Kone

20th December 2006, 10:23 PM

Your command of English is quite impressive. My preference in avoiding the term ‘wicked’ has more to do with my modern educated American mind than any residual Anglo-Saxon leanings I may possess. In my opinion the term is used to much excess by many in the English speaking churches. It is also very subjective, as many people have been persecuted for their so called wickedness who have simply held contrary views on issues of personal importance. I am more than willing to leave such a determination up to our Lord who can see the true nature of each heart. Remember God hardened Pharaoh’s heart so the Pharaoh can not really by termed wicked for his refusals.

In any case, I also prefer to focus on the positive goals of our life’s devotions. If one is training to win a race it is better to focus on the finish line. It would be of benefit to keep the reward of success in mind. There is little benefit in looking for defects in the training and skills of the opponents. When we focus on the negative, in this case wickedness and punishment, the soul becomes caught in negativity and is subject to being discouraged; fears and doubts may take over.

I did not choose ‘c’, total annihilation from God's universe, because I believe that most of those who are imperfect will not be subject to such a fate. It is my understanding that it will be reserved for just a few who totally reject the Holy Spirit. Who these would be I do not know I will not even speculate as this is way beyond my level of authority. Our Father in Heaven is a very loving Father who is not in any way cruel nor capricious. Each of us will be judged fairly according to that which we were given.

dark_knight

21st December 2006, 05:47 PM

Thanks David!

Again my background comes to play. By anglo-saxon, I categorized all English-speaking peoples, not of their ethnicity but langue - this is somewhat common in finnish.

I also believe very few will be annihilated. I am in some parts, quite an universalist!

:innocent:

Danage

24th December 2006, 06:41 PM

I dare not answer this poll for my beliefs are not 'set in stone' as such.

brotherkev

16th February 2007, 04:23 PM

Here's my take on it

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both - He did create the universe after all...
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? As Arius stated, Jesus was created out of nothing. As Paul of Samosata and Arius mention, Jesus is a regular man, sinless and the adopted son of God at his baptism. The Holy Spirit/God dweld inside of the man Jesus as stated in the bible. So my answer is a mix of complex of A & B

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain: I am not sure, since the basis for the word soul is nepesh which has a large and varied meaning. 243 verses with 11 different meanings. In the greek, it is psuche and is also like nepesh in it's varied meanings... but neither word states an immortal soul.. So I am still looking int it.. I learn toward the non-existence, but I wanna make sure.

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes -
<DIR>Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heauen, and a new earth: for the first heauen, and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea.
</DIR>b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell -
<DIR>Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sate on it, from whose face the earth and the heauen fled away, and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I sawe the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened: & another booke was opened, which is the booke of life: and the dead were iudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gaue vp the dead which were in it: and death and hell deliuered vp the dead which were in them: and they were iudged euery man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire: this is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoeuer was not found written in the booke of life, was cast into the lake of fire.
</DIR>b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? Cause, as the bible states, first is death, then comes the judgement.. you better make your choice while your here. You have the choice while your alive, you have the free will, while the grace of god allows you to even make that choice. If you choose to reject him, then the approriate judgement will be handed to you.
<DIR>Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed vnto men once to die, but after this the Iudgement:
</DIR>

Danage

16th February 2007, 08:32 PM

Welcome to the forums.

I say there is 'Purgatory', but it is called 'Sheol' and is both judgement and a second chance. The greatest pain on Earth is the smallest pain in Sheol.

armyman_83

19th April 2007, 07:45 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcendent
c) Both
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? The wicked have had their chance, as others have said before. God will judge accordingly and render every man according to his works.

RabbiBarry

20th April 2007, 12:31 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

G-d is not omnipresent. He is transcendent. He is not interested in this universe at all. He is interested only in the Archangel of the Presence who is the one mediator between G-d and this Universe.

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

The G-d of the OT is not clear. Exodus 6:2 tries to convince us that the G-d of Abraham, Yitzak, and Yaakov who is El Shaddai or G-d the Almighty is in fact the same as YHVH. I do not subscribe to that fiction as the Kabbalah which is the hidden wisdom of Israel denies that fact.

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

He is both the Father of Yeshua the person and Yeshua. This is accomplished because the Archangel uses human bodies for his manifestation on Earth. He used Enoch's body to impregnate Mary. Yeshua's Ruach was reunited with the father when he died and he appeared on earth using Enoch's body after he died.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

Yeshua was born like a normal human, recognized that he was special being in fact the incarnation of the Ruach of the Archangel of the Presence, and died when that Ruach left him on the Cross. His body was buried, but his Ruach ascended to the Father, YHVH, and united with Him, where Yeshua rules as the perfected Being, that is the Archangel who has been purified fully by his seven incarnations, forever and ever.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

All men have Nephesh, which is not immortal, Ruach which is immortal, and probably Neshamah which is immortal.

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

So it the scriptures say.

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

They will repent eventually and be absorbed into the divine mind which is a perfect paradise.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

Yes, in purgatory; yes, via reincarnation

pre-nicean berean

14th January 2008, 04:13 AM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither
both A and B

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant
A) Yes

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________
A) The Father of Jesus the Messiah

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______
D) Pre-existant being, inferior to God, who abandoned his nature to become fully man.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________
B) no,

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________
A) Yes

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______
C) A Total cessation of existance

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________
C) Yes, in a bodily ressurection in the millenial Kingdom. We shall reign as priests and kings with Christ for one thousand years to restore all things to God. Those who refuse to follow Christ will be utterly destroyed. When all is accomplished the completed perfect Kingdom shall be handed over to God. :-)()

Danage

11th March 2008, 11:54 AM

I'd like to do a little interview to gather in one place where each of us stand.
I provide the questions here, and then post my own reply. Pleace copy and paste the questions and let them be in bold and answers in normal text.

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

C. Both.

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

A. Yes.

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

A. The Father of Jesus the Messiah.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

D. Pre-existent being, inferior to G-d, who abandoned his nature to become fully man. He was a pre-existent Archangel.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

B. No.

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

A. Yes.

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

C. Total annihilation from G-d's Universe.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

E. No. We have one chance, otherwise this life wouldn't matter. The dead who never had a chance to hear the Gospel (and will thus have a chance to hear it and accept it) and those who are G-d's spiritual people shall be resurrected in the Millenial Kingdom.

Here's something to start with! If I extend this, you can copy the new questions and edit your last post.
I hope you'll participate! :)

Danage

22nd May 2008, 10:01 PM

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?[/B]
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell -
<dir>Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sate on it, from whose face the earth and the heauen fled away, and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I sawe the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened: & another booke was opened, which is the booke of life: and the dead were iudged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gaue vp the dead which were in it: and death and hell deliuered vp the dead which were in them: and they were iudged euery man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire: this is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoeuer was not found written in the booke of life, was cast into the lake of fire.
</dir>b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? Cause, as the bible states, first is death, then comes the judgement.. you better make your choice while your here. You have the choice while your alive, you have the free will, while the grace of god allows you to even make that choice. If you choose to reject him, then the approriate judgement will be handed to you.
<dir>Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed vnto men once to die, but after this the Iudgement:
</dir>

Brother Kev, do you realise that the quote you gave from Revelation mentions second death, as compared to eternal punishment, and also all will see the salvation of Christ, especially those who never had a chance of hearing it i.e. those who lived before Christ.

Augustines Error

22nd May 2008, 10:40 PM

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire: this is the second death.

This passage raises a question.

What is Hell, exactly? Some say it's a lake of fire. Yet the passage above plainly states that Hell will be cast into a lake of fire. So therefore, Hell must NOT be a lake of fire, otherwise the above passage would make no sense.

So, is "Hell" really Sheol? Or is it closer to the pagan Tartarus? Interstingly enough the ancient Scandanavian goddess of the Underworld was called...you guessed it! HEL. With one "L"

I'll admit, I'm an ex-Origenist (Origen also opposed the trinity), so the subject of eternal damnation doesn't sit well with me, but I'm not here to debate the metaphorical meaning of the "lake of fire". I just want your two cents on this matter. I am not, and I repeat, I am NOT questioning anyone's doctrine.

God Bless,

Joe Kelly

Danage

23rd May 2008, 10:28 AM

Br. Thomas

3rd August 2008, 02:52 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? Those "wicked" still stupid enough to join Satan after his release from a Millenial imprisonment will, with Satan, be destroyed.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

Danage

3rd August 2008, 09:53 PM

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man

In Philippians 2:6-7 it states:

'Who, being in the form of God [as Immanuel is the image of God], thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men'

The verse actually says in the original Hebrew that Immanuel emptied himself to become Jesus Christ.

In response to the Biblical Unitarians who deny the pre-existence of Christ, how can Christ empty himself and yet be born only as a man and not be a pre-existent spirit being? Simply there is no other explanation.

Micah 5:2 also makes it clear that Immanuel existed almost from the very beginning.

Postulare42

4th August 2008, 01:09 AM

Brother Danage,

Phillipians was written in "Hebrew" ?

:confused:

baileyjn

4th August 2008, 04:40 AM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both - My answer
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes - My answer
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________ YHWH is used in the OT to denote the Father or the Son.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______ The first created being, created contemporaneously to time and space, given all authority and glory from God in order to act as God and thereby represent God to creation.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes - My answer
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________ The earth will be restored for the period between the return of Christ and the final judgment. At the final judgment and true end of the world, the Earth will be destroyed and a new world will be created.

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______ A misery equivalent to both A and B.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________ - My answer

Danage

6th August 2008, 09:20 PM

Brother Danage,

Phillipians was written in "Hebrew" ?

:confused:

Sorry, Greek. It said in the original Greek 'emptied himself'. This is how it is rendered in at least one translation of the Bible.

Danage

6th August 2008, 09:22 PM

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________ YHWH is used in the OT to denote the Father or the Son.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordinary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______ The first created being, created contemporaneously to time and space, given all authority and glory from God in order to act as God and thereby represent God to creation.

Yes, Jesus is the Angel of: YHWH, the Presence, the Covenant and Great Counsel. In the capacity of God the Father he acted as God the Father, and was the face of God the Father. Whenever someone saw God they in fact saw the Son.

brotherkev

11th October 2008, 06:33 AM

I already did this when I was here before ..lol, sorry about a double post

Reality

12th October 2008, 12:54 AM

I'd like to do a little interview to gather in one place where each of us stand.
I provide the questions here, and then post my own reply. Pleace copy and paste the questions and let them be in bold and answers in normal text.

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? Not positive, but possibly will be resurrected after the millenium, and without the evil influence_of Satan, given a chance to repent and follow the righteous path in a newness of life.______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

Here's something to start with! If I extend this, you can copy the new questions and edit your last post.
I hope you'll participate! :)

Sorry to be so late with a response.

Nadine

Rev Smith

18th December 2008, 12:18 AM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah AND maker
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain _God appears to be immortal, to the extent that the soul is that part of each of us that is devine, the "soul" of God is that of himself which has not been poured out into the universe

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

Danage

6th June 2011, 03:04 AM

Here is a run down on the poll, showing my present beliefs, influenced by my Hebrew and Jewish knowledge.

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

C

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

A

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

A and B
John 1:1-5, 1:14, 10:29-30 (showing the hierarchical structure of the Father and Son, both being God, but the Father is supreme), 19:19 (in a Hebrew translation), Deuteronomy 6:4 (in its original Hebrew), Genesis 1:1 in tandem with 1:26 and Colossians 1:15-16, along with other passages too numerous to mention.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

D
Philippians 2:7 very clearly shows, in other translations from the A.V. that Yahushoa 'emptied' Himself of His divinity to become man.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

B
No - God is the only true immortal, hence why there are references to 'eternal life', as compared to 'eternal life in Heaven, Hell or Purgatory'.

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

A
As it says in Revelation, God will restore paradise and give humanity His New Heaven, Earth and Jerusalem.

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

C
As I said before, God is the only true immortal, but I must stress that very few will be destroyed. So long as you do not commit the unforgivable sin (ignoring the Holy Breath) then you shall have the opportunity to have eternal life.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

C
As I stated above, those who are destroyed are those who ignore the Truth, despite knowing it to be the Truth. This will be a very small minority. I guess it would be perhaps a few million. Also those who died prior to the death and resurrection of Yahushoa will also be given an opportunity to repent.

AbdelArius

6th August 2011, 12:43 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant
It would be nice to say they are one in the same, but I feel the God of the Old testament entire being has been shaped and formed by being the National God of the Jews (israelites/hebrews etc,) and as such has taken on their national character of their day, A God which Calls upon his followers to slay even the Children of the Amalek (warring tribe) certainly cannot be the same God which ordains for his followers mercy. and mercy was the message of the Christ.

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________ see above.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______
Well for one we all have that dual nature, we are both man and spirit, e hits it on the head, with one small exception, as the Thalia states "For the Son himself does not even know his own essence."

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________
Man is a soul, he is not given one his whole being is one, and Romans 2:7 teaches one to seek immortality, so it goes to argue that one does not have immortality.

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

miseretur

13th September 2011, 02:14 PM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both X
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes X
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah X
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man X
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit X
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No X
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes X
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe X
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom X
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____ X
e) No, why? ________

jacobpressures

29th November 2011, 08:10 AM

I'd like to do a little interview to gather in one place where each of us stand.
I provide the questions here, and then post my own reply. Pleace copy and paste the questions and let them be in bold and answers in normal text.

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent but not everywhere
c) Both
d) Neither

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes - God is always, OF COURSE, the Father!!!! (ie not Jesus not holy ghosty) Any Trinitarian will happily tell you that. they just reject it in theology.
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah The Jesus says it so clearly so many times. I mean, why doubt Jesus?
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God (Still wondering if this is possible)
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man (thats almost scripture. Found at Philippians 2)
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes Absolutely, didn't Jesus clear that up several times?
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe (very well worded)
d) Something else, what? _______

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? The scripture actually says unrighteous. Some differentiate the two. Unrighteous people are not necessarily wicked. they simply didn't have the opportunity to make a definite decision. Christadelphians however, from what i understand, believe that all unrighteous are damned!

This was very will worded. It makes me wonder if this astute query was designed to identify the type of Arians/semi-Arians in the group by denomination. One question you forgot thought is do you believe in demons. That would separate out the type of Socinians.

jacobpressures

29th November 2011, 08:30 AM

miseretur, can you expand on your answer on #4 because I don't follow. In #5 you said Man doesn't have an immortal soul. So how could Jesus be both man and spirit?

Looking at the filter, you could be Trinitarian, but you rejected the expression "fully God and Full man" which is clearly Trinitarian theology of Christ's nature.

When you say spirit, do you somehow mean Holy Spirit? Its a belief I've never heard of.

I understand the Trinitarian dilemma as to whehter Jesus had a soul, ghosty thingy, alongside his fully God (spirit form) self. But you didn't choose that. Plus you deny the immortal soul. So there are no other options. You seem to anniliate everything but holy spirit.

Postulare42

1st December 2011, 06:45 AM

We have ourselves a quick one here, boys 'n girls.

Wonderful.

Danage

4th December 2011, 05:47 PM

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? The scripture actually says unrighteous. Some differentiate the two. Unrighteous people are not necessarily wicked. they simply didn't have the opportunity to make a definite decision. Christadelphians however, from what i understand, believe that all unrighteous are damned!

I believe you're correct on most of the poll, but then again, this is coming from a Semi-Arian, and I entirely agree that God will give us all the opportunity to accept salvation. Wicked, as David put it, is loaded with bias. Christadelphians, as do most other 'Christian' churches, say that they are the only ones who are going to be saved. As me, Hermes and Postulare believe, universalism, or at least near-total universalism, is the logical conclusion on the salvation issue, as it more readily recognises a loving, all powerful God.

Jesus John

5th December 2011, 09:15 AM

1. Is God...
a) Omnipresent
b) Transcedent
c) Both
d) Neither

Omnipresent but mostly a God like Panentheist view.

2. Is the God of the Old Testament same than God of the New Testament?
a) yes
b) no
c) not sure or not relevant

This is only a claim, a theory. There is no evidence that these holy books are God's word, I suppose they all are enlightened human readings from the life.

3. Is the YHWH of Old Testament
a) the Father of Jesus the Messiah
b) Jesus himself
c) an evil demiurge
d) Something else, what? ___________

See above.

4. Who was Jesus Christ?
a) Ordianary man, who was great prophet
b) Preordained but not pre-existent Son of God
c) Fully man and fully God
d) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who abondoned his nature to become fully man
e) Pre-existent being, inferior to God, who consisted from two natures, man and spirit
f) Fully spiritual being who only seemed to be a man
g) Something else, what? _______

Jesus was not a man/human, it was a birth skill of Mary after she reached a level of awareness and enligthment.
She pollinate people in mind through this male insipiration.

5. Does man have immortal soul?
a) Yes
b) No
c) I want to explain ________

A

6. Is the Earth going to be restored/put in the Paradisic condition?
a) yes
b) no
c) I want to answer _________

B

7. What is the ultimate fate of the wicked?
a) Eternal torture in fiery hell
b) Eternal existence in darkness and sorrow
c) Total annihilation from God's universe
d) Something else, what? _______

I think this life is a place of reborn in spirit and for evolution, we are improving ourselve through bad and good experiments, there is only people who do not use their reason and think deep. Real death is emptying himself form this fleshly body and be free in the spirit, this kind of death is the road to awe.

8. Are the wicked going to be given a chance to repent after death?
a) Yes, in purgatory
b) Yes, via reincarnation
c) Yes, in the bodily resurrection in the Millenial Kingdom
d) Yes, in other way, what? _____
e) No, why? ________

If a person will not reborn I suppose he will come again in this earthly life and will begin from the beginning to succeed, joining to an upper level depends on him.