Smoking

[bupanishad2012]

Why is "No Smoking" an article of faith and doctrine in the ACC? I love my cigars. This rule should be for monastics only, as in the Latin Church.
:confused:

[Danage]

Smoking is bad for your health and wealth, and it says in the Christian Brit Chadassah (New Testament) not to abuse your body. Smoking could be seen as such.

I have never smoked (passive smoking is not something that can be avoided all the time), and shall never, for it is bad for your health and your finances. In fact it can cause more stress than it alleviates.

[bupanishad2012]

Smoking is bad for your health and wealth, and it says in the Christian Brit Chadassah (New Testament) not to abuse your body. Smoking could be seen as such.

I have never smoked (passive smoking is not something that can be avoided all the time), and shall never, for it is bad for your health and your finances. In fact it can cause more stress than it alleviates.
I will stop now and smoke another cigar and think about things. Consider this:
There are studies that demonstrate advantages of smoking in medical conditions, including psychological illness. Epidemiologists have validated what many mental health practitioners have long noticed: The smoking rate among people with schizophrenia, depression and anxiety disorders is far higher than average. It is widely believed that people with certain mental health problems are self-medicating with [tobacco] because the nicotine helps their minds function better.

I suffer from bi-polar disease, schizoaffective disorder, and PTSD (mostly due to Vietnam). Nicotine is very helpful to me---especially since I am also an alcoholic in recovery.
I just don't know how it can be a matter of Church doctrine in any case?

[bupanishad2012]

Smoking is bad for your health and wealth, and it says in the Christian Brit Chadassah (New Testament) not to abuse your body. Smoking could be seen as such.

I have never smoked (passive smoking is not something that can be avoided all the time), and shall never, for it is bad for your health and your finances. In fact it can cause more stress than it alleviates.
There are studies that demonstrate advantages of smoking in medical conditions, including psychological illness. Epidemiologists have validated what many mental health practitioners have long noticed: The smoking rate among people with schizophrenia, depression and anxiety disorders is far higher than average. It is widely believed that people with certain mental health problems are self-medicating with [tobacco] because the nicotine helps their minds function better.

I am bi-polar, schizoaffective, and have PTSD. It helps me a lot!

[RabbiBarry]

Smoking is bad for your health and wealth, and it says in the Christian Brit Chadassah (New Testament) not to abuse your body. Smoking could be seen as such.

I have never smoked (passive smoking is not something that can be avoided all the time), and shall never, for it is bad for your health and your finances. In fact it can cause more stress than it alleviates.

Before responding to this response, let me say that I have never smoked. I had a step-father die of emphysemia and do not believe that smoking is good for anyone.

Further, I would never take a position on any dogma or doctrine of the Arian Catholic Church except in the one case in which that church wanted to become the Ecumenical Patriarchate of autocephalous churches which might include the Nasorean Orthdox Qahal.

However, I wanted to revisit 1 Cor. 6:15-20. I will not have to remind this group that Paul cannot be taken too literally as he says many things which are hard to understand. 2 Peter 3:16. Paul is talking in 1 Cor. 6:15 is part of a longer section that deals with sexual immorality. He says at verse 13 "The Body however is not for immorality, but for the Lord, andd the Lord is for the body." In that context, he says that are bodies are members of Christ. Obviously, this statement cannot be taken literally, because if we assume that Christ is Jesus, my body is not part of his. If on the other hand we assume that the body of Christ is the mystical church, it is possible in that context to be a part of the body. Under that concept Paul is talking about the same thing that 1 Peter 2:5 and the writer of Ephesians 2:20 talks about. We are living stones in a spiritual building. In that context, the statement in 1 Cor. 6:19 -- "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you ..." -- makes sense. However even then a particular body is not a temple, but a stone in a temple. In the context of the statement, Paul is not talking about the physical body. He is talking about the spiritual body. It is not for immorality. It is not for evil.

Can these concepts be expanded to say that the using of alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, cigars, etc. harm the spiritual body? In no place does Paul actually make such a claim. In reality, he says be good, do good, live the walk and then you will not be sexually immoral and you will be a good stone in the spiritual Temple.

The Deuteronomist says in Deuteronomy 4:2 not to add to nor take away from the Torah. Yeshua said: "Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." Matt. 5:19. It seems as if not only has the Arian Catholic Church added to the Torah, but in addition, it has ignored the words of Didache which set forth the requirements of Gentile belief. If the Arian Church were to try to claim the power to change the Torah, that would cause long term and permanent difficulties with the Nasorean Orthodox Qahal and all Jewish believers in Yeshua.

[Archbishop Michael-John]

Dear Arius2012,

I have reviewed the article on the website about “Health, Diet and Self Improvement” (http://arian-catholic.org/arian/socio-political_lore.html#health) and I feel it could be reworded slightly to clarify the point being made. Smoking is to be forbidden at church events in fairness to others and the church discourages people from smoking and encourages smokers to try to stop!

Church Discipline NOT Doctrine :reveek:
I’m sorry to read that you are a sufferer of PTSD and a related illness; I do truly sympathize with you as I am a former Military Policeman myself and have seen how people with shell-shock are affected! I will pray for you.

The Arian Catholic Church's policy against smoking is a church discipline NOT a church doctrine or an article of faith! BUT it is a doctrine of the Church to take good care of your own body! The Arian Catholic Church is keen to promote healthy living, self improvement and discourage people from following the road towards dependency on drugs and drink. I would also try to help anyone who has difficulty in giving up an addictive habit and would certainly NOT wish to turn them away!

Just as it is wrong to commit suicide it is wrong to self harm; in the same way as it is wrong to hurt others, so it is also wrong to hurt yourself, this is true in cases of both action and inaction. Smoking Cannabis has been shown to help sufferers of Multiple Sclerosis but the medical community is reluctant to advocate this because 1: Smoking causes cancer, lung and heart disease and other illnesses, and 2: Cannabis as well as being hallucinogenic has been shown to cause brain damage. What the pharmaceutical laboratories are now doing is looking at the beneficial active ingredients of Cannabis and is considering ways of reproducing this in a safe tablet form.

Therefore the people who suffer from mental health problems and are trying to use cigarettes as an anti-depressant should really obtain the proper medication through a doctor.

:-( Smoking harms and kills!
Smoking increases the level of Carbon Monoxide in the blood, which hinders the efficiency of the blood in carrying Oxygen. It also leaves huge tar deposits in the lungs which literally corrode the alveoli in the lungs thus reducing the lungs' ability to exchange Oxygen and thus the smoker’s ability to respire. The main addictive drug in cigarettes is Nicotine, this is carcinogenic, it can cause cancer, not just in the lungs, but as it gets into the bloodstream it can trigger cancer in the heart and anywhere in the body.

Smoking has other damaging effects on the body too; it can damage other organs in the body, and can affect the body's ability to regulate hormone production. It is well known to cause high blood pressure and increase cholesterol buildups in the veins and arteries - artery clogging! Furthermore the smoke saturates hair, clothes and the room, including furniture. Over time a smoke room can accumulate a film of sticky tar – just think of what it does to the lungs!

The addiction to the nicotine is caused by the damage and chemical clogging occurring to nerve synapses in the brain giving both calming and stimulating effects, as the drug starts to wear off the brain experiences synaptic overloading (my layman's term!) resulting in a craving for more of the drug to calm the nerves. In effect people who smoke to try to self administer antidepressants are actually making themselves worse as well as doing themselves more harm! :sick:

Passive and Social Harm!
A huge amount of resources are spent by the medical profession in treating smoking related illnesses, resources that could be spent on treating other unavoidable illnesses if people would stay clear of cigarettes. The worrying thing is that family, friends and colleagues also have to inhale the smoke when they are in the company of smokers and they too are at risk of these ailments through passive inhalation of cigarette smoke. We should consider the emotional and financial impacts that are had on the relatives and carers of victims of smoking related illnesses. Families that are living close to the breadline are also affected because the smoker will often invest as much as it costs to feed their habit to the detriment of the family. Smoking can become so important to the smoker that, as well as being in denial, when faced with the threat or prospect of being deprived of their cigarettes they can display extreme anxiety!

A matter of Conscience and Self Discipline
Smoking is something that has to be left to people's own consciences, but the Arian Catholic Church will continue to frown on smoking, which it views as an evil! The Bible is clear that we are to take good care of our bodies:-
1 Timothy 4:8 tells us...
“For bodily exercise profits a little, but godliness is profitable for all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.”


1 Corinthians 6:19-20 tells us...
“Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.”


Ephesians 5:29 tells us...
“For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.”
I would ask all smokers to consider the rights and wellbeing of others, but also not to forget that we all have a responsibility to look after ourselves. Please try to stop smoking! If you cannot stop, don't stop trying and at least try to cut down, for the sake of yourself and those around you.
:-)
Kind regards,

[David Kone]

I will stop now and smoke another cigar and think about things. Consider this:
There are studies that demonstrate advantages of smoking in medical conditions, including psychological illness. Epidemiologists have validated what many mental health practitioners have long noticed: The smoking rate among people with schizophrenia, depression and anxiety disorders is far higher than average. It is widely believed that people with certain mental health problems are self-medicating with [tobacco] because the nicotine helps their minds function better.

I suffer from bi-polar disease, schizoaffective disorder, and PTSD (mostly due to Vietnam). Nicotine is very helpful to me---especially since I am also an alcoholic in recovery.
I just don't know how it can be a matter of Church doctrine in any case?


Dear Brother,

It is with great sadness that I ponder this topic. First, I hope you reconsider your decision to leave this group. It is entirely selfish, I have lost too many acquaintances because of a detachment that I never chose to be burdened with has kept me apart from others for most of my life. I too have suffered greatly from PTSD. I came by it not on the battlefield but through some terrible events in my childhood. It left me an emotional cripple for over forty years. Fortunately, because of my early faith in God, I did not harden my heart towards my fellow beings but unfortunately I do know how little many can be trusted. I withdrew into my own world hardly speaking a word to anyone. I self medicated in a variety of ways. I took up smoking with a vengeance. For most of my early adulthood I could not hold a job. Slowly and painfully I put my life together. By the time I was 27 I had nearly ruined my health and was introduced for the first time to the concept of taking care of myself. I did not entirely quit smoking and other bad habits but they became less and less frequent. It was not until I was 43 when I had a complete break down, after my second failed marriage, that I actually received the help I needed, when an emergency room nurse recognized that I was suffering from PTSD. So you see I have the right to speak with some authority on this issue.

I do not regret most of what I did when I was young. Quitting smoking however was one of the best things I ever did. Besides the health benefits it was part of my regaining control over my own life and stopping the abuse that I was reenacting upon my self. My wife is a highly educated mental health professional who specializes in mentally ill chemical abusers. I have read recently somewhere in the professional literature she receives that the concept of "self medicating" is being vigorously challenged by the clinicians. The medications that are being self chosen are not those that will ameliorate symptoms but quite just the opposite. Think about it, how is inhaling the fumes of a member of the highly hallucinogenic belladonna family going to improve the lucidity of a schizophrenic?

I do not think this is only about tobacco. From what you have said I think that identifying yourself as a cigar smoker is a statement of your independent nature. I think that the feelings that you derive from smoking cigars are very important. I too am of a very independent nature. In fact, due to the circumstances of my life I have been down right antiauthoritarian. On the other hand while I bristled at anyone telling me what to do I was not my own master. I was the slave to the highly addictive tobacco and a host of unresolved issues that ate away inside me and controlled my ability to live life fully.

I hope you understand that I am telling you and others these things out of the pain of my heart. Those things that you wrote about your diagnosis can be entirely due to the PTSD. My life began at 46 when I finally was strong enough to deal with those terrible things that I kept inside for forty years. There is real hope for you and the many other sufferers of PTSD, the last thirteen years of my life have been so different, as day is from night.

For your sake I exhort you to take good care of your health, for as we become healthier our need for unhealthy things becomes less.

[Archbishop Michael-John]

Dear Pastor Kone,

Very well said! :-)

--
Thank you Most Reverend Sir. This clarification makes me feel much better about the policy. Smoking is an evil and no one should have to be subjected to it just to associate with others.
Dear Rabbi Barry,

Thank you for your reply, I am pleased that we have clarity on this issue, I pray that Arius2012 will also now feel better about this policy.

Kind regards,
in the Grace of our Father, through Immanuel,

[Danage]

With regards to Paul of Tarsus - his writings have to be seen in the context of the time. In the C1st C.E. tobacco was not known of, and so could not be commented on. Am I right in saying that drugs were also a cloudy issue in the C1st?

[Archbishop Michael-John]

During the first century little was understood about the effects of smoking and drug abuse. Clay Pipe smoking of various dried herbs was commonplace around the world (although more so since the middle ages and less common in Biblical Israel), we know this because often the teeth found on skulls were worn where the pipe was held. Certain herbs and fungi were regularly taken to induce hallucinations, believed to be visions! This has caused speculation over the writings of the Book of Revelation/Apocalypse of John. Also many forms of body paint used by warriors were hallucinogenic!

We now know that these are harmful and that it is therefore wrong to use them. The book of Numbers chapter 6 refers to the Law of the Nazirite and is an example in which a person who followed a period of special devotion to God abstained from eating and drinking anything that was intoxicating. It was therefore understood at the time that to be truly close to God one required a clear head and to be free from impurities as He had intended us.

[Archbishop Michael-John]

The Arian Catholic Church is neither adding to nor subtracting from the teachings of the Torah. No body has the power to do that! Anyone who believes otherwise is misguided or has misunderstood the meaning behind what has been written.

Even as living stones in a Spiritual building, sexual immorality is desecrating part of the spiritual temple through an abuse of the body. St Paul did not go into more detail about what other specific abuses of the body brought the spirit into immorality, but he did not need to, as: "therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit" is clearly differentiating between the body and the spirit. It is therefore evident (and confirmed by other passages) that immoral behaviour harms the spirit, we therefore have a duty to respect the bodies that our Father has given us.

Galatians 5:16-26 teaches us...

<SUP>16</SUP> I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. <SUP>17</SUP> For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. <SUP>18</SUP> But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


<SUP>19</SUP> Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, <SUP>20</SUP> idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, <SUP>21</SUP> envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


<SUP>22</SUP> But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, <SUP>23</SUP> gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. <SUP>24</SUP> And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. <SUP>25</SUP> If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. <SUP>26</SUP> Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Further, I would never take a position on any dogma or doctrine of the Arian Catholic Church except in the one case in which that church wanted to become the Ecumenical Patriarchate of autocephalous churches which might include the Nasorean Orthdox Qahal.

While we are happy to maintain Ecumenical relationships with other like minded religious bodies, the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, by definition cannot become a Sect of another church.

[miseretur]

It is good thing that arian church stand agaist tobacco and says that smoking is very bad, when man smoke hi is slave by tobacco and then tobacco is his idol and falsegod... it is good thing that nowadays it is agaist law to smoke in bublic place, and doctors says that smoking is dangerous to all peoples.
When I start to belive Jesus I stop smoking because I know that it is poison and my body is temple of Holy spirit.
If someone have this kind of problem, I must say, Pray God that hi give you strenght win this addiction.

[LeviathanNI]

I smoke myself, and enjoy it. I take pleasure in selecting tobaccos for my pipe, or getting a particular kind of cigar, but I do it privately, and seldom in the company of others. To me it is a relaxation thing, something I do whilst reading and contemplating or pondering.
I know it is bad for my health, and do as much as possible, short of stopping, to counter any damage... fully in the knowledge that stopping is the only sure way to stop any damage.
I would stop well short of telling, or being seen to insinuate a demand, that someone stops. For sure I would ask someone not to smoke near me, or any of my younger relatives if it made them uncomfortable... but there is something a bit dictatorial in demanding that people must stop in order to be fuller members of a group... and I happen to think that gettinf someone to stop who actually wants to is a thousand times better than making someone stop by guilt, then having them lapse and feel like they have failed.. or have to lie etc

Smoking, whilst undesirable, is way down the list of things that should be concentrated on, and deserves nothing but a minor 'well you shouldn't really'.

[Danage]

While I do not agree with smoking (I never have), I would have to agree with LeviathanNI on this. The ACC should concentrate on more pressing matters, if there are any. If there are not, I apologise.

[Archbishop Michael-John]

Smoking, whilst undesirable, is way down the list of things that should be concentrated on, and deserves nothing but a minor 'well you shouldn't really'.

To be honest this is all that was intended!
:concucious:
The focus is on our responsibility to respect our bodies and strive to remain fit and healthy. Smoking along with drug abuse and excessive consumption of alcohol are contrary to this philosophy; those who wish to continue smoking without encroaching on others, as I have already said, will do so as a matter of their own conscience as they know it could damage their health.

[miseretur]

of course smoking is nice and it have some pleasure but it doesent change that think that smoking is sin. it is original sin what control human life when they live they life in the world, all humans like bad things more than good things it is human nature. but we christian fight against our flesh. and flesh is weapon of satan because we are corrupted bacause of adam.

and it is same thing that you want to kill some body to cancer. I dont mine if some one to that but is is very important realise that it is sin and, if pregnan women smokes and child born sick, it is his mother fault it is so.

it is over hundred years when some doctors say that smoking is poison, and nowadays we know it better. If you smoke dont be proud of it, it is addiction and sin is sin. Love is only thing what motivate you to stop smoking,

start praying to Lord that hi give you understanding in this question. some day you will realize that you dont want to smoke enymore, and thank God for that.
Some addictions are very hard to beat but if you really want that and you know that some addiction control your life. when you are Christian only ruler in your life is jesus, not tobacco or other addictions.

Eph 4:17 Therefore, I tell you and insist on in the Lord not to live any longer like the gentiles live, thinking worthless thoughts.

Gal 5:24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.

[Danage]

I will stop now and smoke another cigar and think about things. Consider this:
There are studies that demonstrate advantages of smoking in medical conditions, including psychological illness. Epidemiologists have validated what many mental health practitioners have long noticed: The smoking rate among people with schizophrenia, depression and anxiety disorders is far higher than average. It is widely believed that people with certain mental health problems are self-medicating with [tobacco] because the nicotine helps their minds function better.

I suffer from bi-polar disease, schizoaffective disorder, and PTSD (mostly due to Vietnam). Nicotine is very helpful to me---especially since I am also an alcoholic in recovery.
I just don't know how it can be a matter of Church doctrine in any case?


I have a mental illness and I have never turned to smoking or other abuses of the body, mind and soul for comfort. I pray and seek comfort, treatment and an end to the illness from G-d.