Abortion is murder

[miseretur]

The Letter of Barnabas, chapter 19:5 (c.100-132 C.E.)

“Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born.”

The Didache, or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (c.150 C.E.)

“This is the Way of Life: . . . You shall not kill the child in the womb or murder a new-born infant.”

Tertullian: Apology, chapter 9:8 (c.197 C.E.)

“But with us murder is forbidden once and for all. We are not permitted to destroy even the foetus in the womb, as long as blood is still being drawn to form a human being. To prevent the birth of a child is anticipated murder. It makes no difference whether one destroys a life already born or interferes with its coming to birth. One who will be a man is already one.”

Basil: Letter to Amphilochius (347 C.E.)

“She who has deliberately destroyed a foetus has to pay the penalty of murder. And any hair-splitting distinction as to whether the foetus was formed or unformed is inadmissible to us.”


Humanist and even a Amnesty International is support abortion, they say that is "womens" choice.
New Messiah Barak Obama is also one of these massmurder. Hi support Killing invants.
http://abortionno.org/
These cold rationalist and humanist are attacking Humans freedom to live. Are human life so worthless that, womens who act like harlots have right to kill babys. Why Sin life is so important? Those who say, we must love and be that and that, and like Elton John calls Jesus a gay man.
causes of abortion are generally social, these murders claim, allways other, but Statistics are talking other.
What are others belives these kind of things?
My stand is quit stable, I trust here in Bible. All life is sacred. But if someone try to murder a child, then we must protect this unborn child and then it is better than these abort peoples go´s to prison, and if this peples done this seweral times then is better than they sterilize.
But if women or doctor who had done abortions begins to regret his or shes murder acts, hi must then pray Jesus.
even this sin can be forgiven. But only if you agree that you have made sin.
I now several poeples who had mede abortion, and fortunate this peoles do not regret this sins. And later I hear that they have done it again.
When I become father, last summer, I realize even better how babys are God´s gift to us, and it is really sick kill these little ones.


Gen 9:6. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man.

Exo. 21:22-23.
And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow; he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,


Psa. 36:9. The life-giving fountain belongs to you, and your light gives light to each of us.

Psa. 139:13-16.
You are the one who put me together inside my mother's body,
and I praise you because of the wonderful way you created me. Everything you do is marvelous! Of this I have no doubt.
Nothing about me is hidden from you! I was secretly woven together deep in the earth below,
but with your own eyes you saw my body being formed. Even before I was born, you had written in your book everything I would do.

Act. 17:28. For we live, move, and exist because of him, as some of your own poets have said: 'For we are his children, too.'

Rom. 14:12. Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

1.Jn. 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him.

[Jesus John]

"Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin." (17:31)

[Postulare42]

I agree that abortion is not a suitable form of population control. I do not see a problem with contraception.

[miseretur]

I agree that abortion is not a suitable form of population control. I do not see a problem with contraception.


Prevention is the matter of conscience, I think?
But Countries in which distributed or share condoms, for example, has not stopped the spread of aids. Enlightenment is better way, examble Roman Catholic Church have this kind if view about it.
Since the distribution of condoms, rather incite to use those.
Countries in which the church teaches people the correct sexual morality, there is also much smaller AIDS Statistics.
Protestant countries are the worst countries where babys are killed.
From this we can see the conclusion, that Liberalism is not the answer?
This is only my view about the issue.
The ancient Israelites stopped the worship of Baal.
Lord deny peoples sacrifice children to Satan, this case to Molok or baal.
Loved child has many names :)
Why God allowed killing the pagan´s childrens?
As the messiah had to arise in the country which was free of paganism and the false gods. So God could see in advance, ett 'people had to be pure from evil influences. That messiah also can save this pagans too, of course later, but Messiah purpose was better in long time line.
Jesus would never have been able to born a heathen family.
God used the history of a rather radical ways to eradicate the heathen, who threatened to Israel.
But only when the Gentiles threatened the people of God.
That is why liberals are sometimes difficult to understand the Old Testament. But if we read the record of revelation, then God's thoughts have not changed.
The current liberal sermons sometimes forget the Lord's Day.
Liberals preech many things but They dont realize Gods Wrath.
If we accept Homosexual behavior and child murders. And we think these are normel ways to live, then we are really ih the wrong way. But I think that every man, have selected one day, who or what they want to serve.
but this is then other thologycal view or question.
I think Kingdom of God is here the right aswer.

Joh. 5:28-29.
Don't be amazed at this, because the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
and will come out-those who have done what is good to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced what is evil to the resurrection of condemnation.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the 1,000 years were over. This is the first resurrection.

I am cautious in this millennial thinking, but that must study more.because I do not want to share the salvation of two parts, like jehowas witnes.
Christ has already saved the Christians, but still there is some broplems in doctrine of millennial kingdom.
But I believe that the murdered babies come at some point to face those who murdered them.Then maybe the murderers realize what they have done, and pleading for forgiveness from God.

[Postulare42]

I am sorry, but your data is inaccurate.

Condom USE has significantly slowed the rate of sexual transmission of HIV, and of unwanted pregnancy. (notice the caps on "USE")

Epidemiology indicates no such link between religious instruction and HIV incidence.

Considering that sexual relations are only one vector of transmission, your statement is dangerously misleading.

You seem to be moving in an almost Calvinist direction. In as much as I have Donatist leanings myself, I do not judge this.

I think we need to exercise vigilance that we do not add to the burden others with a weight we need not carry.

The requirements placed upon the Noachidae is easy and light. Less so upon proselytes.

One way to minimize abortions is to remove the social ostracism inflicted upon those who make errors in judgement, and come together to make their path easier.

[miseretur]

Dear postulare42, I am not a calvinist. Thet Donatis and pelagious viewings are quit harmfull too. They espect humans too much. Which does not serve at all for mercy, or drive people to grace. Donatist are driving people to seek their own righteousness. Although historically they had a title dispute with the Church. the bishops who denied their faith during the persecution, should be strictly distinguished from the bishop's role.
But should not excommunicate, if they repent their sins.
That is only my view.
Abortion is also a serious sin, and it should not be taken lightly.
Still I belive that Jesus grace also applies to them, but only if they truly repent and are able to show it to the church.
Christian can be a blood-debt, if he accepts the unborn child's murder.

Mat. 18:16-18
But if he doesn't listen, take one or two others with you so that 'every word may be confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

If, however, he ignores them, tell it to the congregation. If he also ignores the congregation, regard him as a gentile and a tax collector.

"Truly I tell you, whatever you prohibit on earth will have been prohibited in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will have been permitted in heaven.

1.Ti. 5:22. Do not ordain anyone hastily. Do not participate in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

Sin is a different issue than sinner, We all are sinners, but In Jesus we are righteous, but only through Christ.
If we Accept sinfull behavior, like here Abortion, we are then part of thos sin. God hates sin but loves the sinner. Serious sin can also lead to indifference, and ultimately drive away from the faith.

Rom. 2:4 Or do you think so little of the riches of his kindness, forbearance, and patience, not realizing that it is God's kindness that is leading you to repentance?

[miseretur]

Fetuses older than 16 weeks may die by the saline abortion, or salt poisoning, method. A long needle pierces the bag of waters, withdraws some of the amniotic fluid, and replaces it with a concentrated salt solution. As the baby swallows and breathes, filling its delicate lungs with the toxic solution, it struggles and convulses. The caustic effect of the poison burns away the top layer of skin, leaving it raw and shriveled. Its brain may begin to hemorrhage. A painful death may come in hours, though occasionally when labor begins a day or so later, a live but dying baby is delivered.

If the baby is too developed to be killed by these or similar methods, one option remains—hysterotomy, a cesarean section with a twist, ending life instead of saving it. The mother’s abdomen is opened surgically, and almost always a live baby is pulled out. It may even cry. But it must be left to die. Some are deliberately killed by smothering, drowning, and in other ways.

What a Doctor Feels

For centuries physicians have embraced the values expressed in the venerated Hippocratic oath, which says in part: “To none will I give a deadly drug, even if solicited, nor offer counsel to such an end, and no woman will I give a destructive suppository [to produce abortion], but guiltless and hallowed will I keep my art.”

What ethical wrestlings confront doctors who terminate life in the womb? Dr. George Flesh describes it this way: “My first abortions, as an intern and resident, caused me no emotional distress. . . . My discontent began after many hundreds of abortions. . . . Why did I change? Early in my practice, a married couple came to me and requested an abortion. Because the patient’s cervix was rigid, I was unable to dilate it to perform the procedure. I asked her to return in a week, when the cervix would be softer. The couple returned and told me that they had changed their minds. I delivered their baby seven months later.

“Years later, I played with little Jeffrey in the pool at the tennis club where his parents and I were members. He was happy and beautiful. I was horrified to think that only a technical obstacle had prevented me from terminating Jeffrey’s potential life. . . . I believe that tearing a developed fetus apart, limb from limb, simply at the mother’s request, is an act of depravity that society should not permit.”

A nurse who stopped assisting with abortions told about her job in an abortion clinic: “One of our jobs was to count the parts. . . . If the girl goes home with pieces of the baby still in her uterus, there can be serious problems. I’d take the parts and go through them to make sure there were two arms, two legs, a torso, a head. . . . I have four children. . . . There was a huge conflict between my professional life and my personal life that I couldn’t reconcile. . . . Abortion is a hard business.”

[miseretur]

I am sorry, but your data is inaccurate..

it does no harm, I apologize for language proficiency, and I try to write more clearly

[TwoWitnessesUSdotcom]

What about in incidences where the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy? I understand this is rare and no man knows for certain what will be the fate of the mother. I'm just wondering how you all feel on this issue. If the mother is likely to die, or both the child and the mother may die, is it still a sin to terminate the pregnancy?

[miseretur]

What about in incidences where the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy? I understand this is rare and no man knows for certain what will be the fate of the mother. I'm just wondering how you all feel on this issue. If the mother is likely to die, or both the child and the mother may die, is it still a sin to terminate the pregnancy?

Here event usually thought mother because child can not survive.
I quest Roman catholic catechism teach that the same way.
Non-uterine pregnancy is dangerous for both.
However, this is a rarity, because the child usually dies in the risk weeks.
But many things are in God's hands.

[Hermes]

What about in incidences where the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy? I understand this is rare and no man knows for certain what will be the fate of the mother. I'm just wondering how you all feel on this issue. If the mother is likely to die, or both the child and the mother may die, is it still a sin to terminate the pregnancy?

Well, it seems like the only way to act in that situation. Of course every situation is unique. Sometimes hard choices have to be made, and sometimes we err, and then we learn from the mistake. If one is not sure if they have done the right thing, it's something that can be confessed to God.

[Postulare42]

This is taken from another forum. Well worth the thought (if you can stand the irony), as it also speaks to the traditions of "Sola Scriptura" and "inerrency".

Friends,

I recently received a letter from a concerned parent. In the letter she told me that her daughter had been raped, but was refusing to marry her rapist as per Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A28-29&version=KJV). The stupid girl actually wants to press charges on the man!

Not only that, but that she also plans to kill the poor unborn baby her rapist had given her! (Sickening! Have young people today got NO morals?)

Any and all advice on what I can say to convince this girl to do the right thing would be great. Should I start with the basics ?

"Whore, you'll burn in Hell for all eternity - unless you marry your rapist"??

Or should I go for a more subtle approach??

Scripture:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A28-29&version=KJV)(KJV)

"...If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days..."

:eek:

[Hermes]

This is taken from another forum. Well worth the thought (if you can stand the irony), as it also speaks to the traditions of "Sola Scriptura" and "inerrency".

No problem, even if the post's tone is in complete opposition to the attitude of love, the content of it is still something to ponder on. This is a good example to me of something that becomes impossible to agree with. I doubt even Jews would agree with this. Then again I don't pay too much heed to the Old Testament in itself, I am a gentile after all (The Noahide laws give a good summary of the reasonable commandments and so does Jesus' words). The Old Testament exegesis should have its root from the gospel of Christ. We must weigh things with the commandment of love and with the help of the guiding spirit.

[TwoWitnessesUSdotcom]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+22%3A28-29&version=KJV)(KJV)

"...If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days..."

:eek:

Okay, I'm going to say something here that is completely off point, off target, off subject, and probably will offend some but this scripture is a PERFECT example of why I believe that some of the law is in error and influenced by men.

This law could not possibly come from the Holy Spirit, IMHO.

Under this law all a STALKER has to do is grab a young woman he's attracted to and take her by force and she's his forever!

The Holy Spirit speaking in my spirit says this is appalling!

It's an atrocious law, not well thought out and certaily ill executed.

Okay I'm done with my rant.

[Augustines Error]

The American media likes to misrepresent my nations acceptance of the abortion issue. Most media outlets would have you believe that the abortion issue divides the American populace.

The truth is, sadly, the majority of Americans believe abortion is a woman's reproductive right. Even people who identify themselves as "pro-life" quickly find a reason to justify terminating their unwanted pregnancy, but they condemn others who take the same road!

I doubt abortion will ever be outlawed in the USA. The Republicans could have done so when they were in control, but they did nothing to regulate abortion (or anything else, for that matter!).

[LeviathanNI]

Okay, I'm going to say something here that is completely off point, off target, off subject, and probably will offend some but this scripture is a PERFECT example of why I believe that some of the law is in error and influenced by men.

This law could not possibly come from the Holy Spirit, IMHO.

Under this law all a STALKER has to do is grab a young woman he's attracted to and take her by force and she's his forever!

The Holy Spirit speaking in my spirit says this is appalling!

It's an atrocious law, not well thought out and certaily ill executed.

Okay I'm done with my rant.

Are you a literalist? Or could the passage be saying that a man should honour the women he has sex with, by making her his wife?

AS for abortion.. I have splinters in my arse, as I, personally, am totally against it, however, I do understand a woman's right to choose what she does... however, if the passage above means what I wrote, then perhaps such horrible things would cease to be a major problem?

[Danage]

Are you a literalist? Or could the passage be saying that a man should honour the women he has sex with, by making her his wife?

AS for abortion.. I have splinters in my arse, as I, personally, am totally against it, however, I do understand a woman's right to choose what she does... however, if the passage above means what I wrote, then perhaps such horrible things would cease to be a major problem?

I agree completely. Also, in exceptional circumstances abortion should be allowed, but I must emphasise the 'exceptional circumstances' part. If the birth would kill the mother, and the baby will be still-born then I believe the abortion should be allowed, but that is generally my only exception. As a Qara'i Jew it is my belief that life is sacred, given by God, and that only God can take it away. It's just my opinion, but I agree with Neill (almost) completely.