Questions

[Jesus John]

Dear Arian Catholics,

Under this topic I want to share my questions about the Bible. I want to say that proofs will be accepted only from the Bible (Old and New testament together) No Pauline, emotional or non reasonable explanation instead of the Bible itself shall be accepted. Our sources shall be the Bible and the words of Jesus.

I hope and wish from God to make this work useful for us (Amen)

Here under is my first question;

"And coming he dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was said by prophets: That he shall be called a Nazarene" (Matthew 2:23)

Where in the Bible is this sentence and who did say this?

Thank you

Oguzhan

[Danage]

Dear Arian Catholics,

Under this topic I want to share my questions about the Bible. I want to say that proofs will be accepted only from the Bible (Old and New testament together) No Pauline, emotional or non reasonable explanation instead of the Bible itself shall be accepted. Our sources shall be the Bible and the words of Jesus.

I hope and wish from God to make this work useful for us (Amen)

Here under is my first question;

"And coming he dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was said by prophets: That he shall be called a Nazarene" (Matthew 2:23)

Where in the Bible is this sentence and who did say this?

Thank you

Oguzhan

The prophecy refers to a Nazirite, and not a Nazarene. Jesus Christ was a a Nazarene. This is an obvious corruption of the Bible (of which there are few, I believe) in this case.

[Danage]

Judges 13:5: 'For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto G-d from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines'.

Amos 2:11: 'And I raised up of your sons for prophets, and of your young men for Nazarites. [Is it] not even thus, O ye children of Israel? saith the LORD.'

[Jesus John]

Judges 13:5: 'For, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto G-d from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines'.

Amos 2:11: 'And I raised up of your sons for prophets, and of your young men for Nazarites. [Is it] not even thus, O ye children of Israel? saith the LORD.'

Thank you for your answer Dan,

Lets question the connection between the verses you have referred.

The first one;

"And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the Lord: and he delivered them into the hands of the Philistines forty years.

Now there was a certain man of Saraa, and of the race of Dan, whose name was Manue, and his wife was barren.
And an angel of the Lord appeared to her, and said: Thou art barren and without children: but thou shalt conceive and bear a son.
Now therefore beware and drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing. Because thou shalt conceive and bear a son, and no razor shall touch his head: for he shall be a Nazarite of God, from his infancy, and from his mother's womb, and he shall begin to deliver Israel from the hands of the Philistines
And when she was come to her husband she said to him: A man of God came to me, having the countenance of an angel, very awful. And when I asked him who he was, and whence he came, and by what name he was called, he would not tell me.

But he answered thus: Behold thou shalt conceive and bear a son: beware thou drink no wine, nor strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite of God from his infancy, from his mother's womb until the day of his death.
Then Manue prayed to the Lord, and said: I beseech thee, O Lord, that the mail of God, whom thou didst send, may come again, and teach us what we ought to do concerning the child that shall be born.
And the Lord heard the prayer of Manue, and the angel of the Lord appeared again to his wife as she was sitting in the field. But Manue her husband was not with her. And when she saw the angel,
She made haste and ran to her husband: and told him saying: Behold the man hath appeared to me whom I saw before.
He rose up and followed his wife: and coming to the man, said to him: Art thou he that spoke to the woman? And he answered: I am.
And Manue said to him: When thy word shall come to pass, what wilt thou that the child should do? or from what shall he keep himself?
And the angel of the Lord said to Manue: From all the things I have spoken of to thy wife, let her refrain herself:
And let her eat nothing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: and whatsoever I have commanded her, let her fulfil and observe.
And Manue said to the angel of the Lord: I beseech thee to consent to my request, and let us dress a kid for thee.
And the angel answered him: If thou press me, I will not eat of thy bread: but if thou wilt offer a holocaust, offer it to the Lord. And Manue knew not it was the angel of the Lord.
And he said to him: What is thy name, that, if thy word shall come to pass, we may honour thee?
And he answered him: Why askest thou my name, which is wonderful?
Then Manue took a kid of the flocks, and the libations, and put them upon a rock, offering to the Lord, who doth wonderful things: and he and his wife looked on.
And when the flame from the altar went up towards heaven, the angel of the lord ascended also in the flame. And when Manue and his wife saw this, they fell flat on the ground.
And the angel of the Lord appeared to them no more. And forthwith Manue understood that it was an angel of the Lord,
And he said to his wife: We shall certainly die, because we have seen God.
And his wife answered him: If the Lord had a mind to kill us, he would not have received a holocaust and libations at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor have told us the things that are to come.
And she bore a son, and called his name Samson. And the child grew, and the Lord blessed him. And the spirit of the Lord began to be with him in the camp of Dan, between Saraa and Esthaol" (Judges 13:1-25)

The story is about a man who is from Saraa and the race of Dan called Manue. No interest and connection with Jesus and the verse in Matthew 2:23 is found.

The second one;

"Thus saith the Lord: For three crimes of Moab, and for four I will not convert him: because he hath burnt the bones of the king of Edom even to ashes.

And I will seed a fire into Moab, and it shall devour the houses of Carioth: and Moab shall die with a noise, with the sound of the trumpet:
And I will cut off the judge from the midst thereof, and will slay all his princes with him, saith the Lord.
Thus saith the Lord: For three crimes of Juda, and for four I will not convert him: because he hath cast away the law of the Lord, and hath not kept his commandments: for their idols have caused them to err, after which their fathers have walked.
And I will send a fire into Juda, and it shall devour the houses of Jerusalem.
Thus saith the Lord: For three crimes of Israel, and for four I will not convert him: because he hath sold the just man for silver, and the poor man for a pair of shoes.
They bruise the heads of the poor upon the dust of the earth, and turn aside the way of the humble: and the son and his father have gone to the same young woman, to profane my holy name.
And they sat down upon garments laid to pledge by every altar: and drank the wine of the condemned in the house of their God.
Yet I cast out the Amorrhite before their face: whose height was like the height of cedars, and who was strong as an oak: and I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots beneath.
It is I that brought you up out of the land of Egypt, and I led you forty years through the wilderness, that you might possess the land of the Amorrhite.
And I raised up of your sons for prophets, and of your young men for Nazarites. Is it not so, O ye children of Israel, saith the Lord?
And you will present wine to the Nazarites: and command the prophets, saying: Prophesy not.
Behold, I will screak under you as a wain screaketh that is laden with hay.
And flight shall perish from the swift, and the valiant shall not possess his strength, neither shall the strong save his life.
And he that holdeth the bow shall not stand, and the swift of foot shall not escape, neither shall the rider of the horse save his life. And the stout of heart among the valiant shall flee away naked in that day, saith the Lord" (Amos 2:1-16)

There is also no interest and connection with Jesus and the verse in Matthew 2:23 in here. Nazarite is another word then Nazarene. Nazarite means "A Jew bound by a vow to lave the hair uncut, to abstain from wine and strong drink, and to practice extraordinary purity of life and devotion, the obligation being for life, or for a certain time"

Matthew claims that there were prophet sayings "He should called Nazarene" Where is this sentence and which prophet said this?

[Jesus John]

Final answer; There is no prophets saying in the Old testament as "That he shall be called a Nazarene"(Matthew 2:23)

Here is my second question;

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:
Abraham begot Isaac. And Isaac begot Jacob. And Jacob begot Judas and his brethren.
And Judas begot Phares and Zara of Thamar. And Phares begot Esron. And Esron begot Aram.
And Aram begot Aminadab. And Aminadab begot Naasson. And Naasson begot Salmon.
And Salmon begot Booz of Rahab. And Booz begot Obed of Ruth. And Obed begot Jesse.
And Jesse begot David the king. And David the king begot Solomon, of her that had been the wife of Urias.
And Solomon begot Roboam. And Roboam begot Abia. And Abia begot Asa.
And Asa begot Josaphat. And Josaphat begot Joram. And Joram begot Ozias.
And Ozias begot Joatham. And Joatham begot Achaz. And Achaz begot Ezechias.
And Ezechias begot Manasses. And Manesses begot Amon. And Amon begot Josias. And Josias begot Jechonias and his brethren in the transmigration of Babylon.
And after the transmigration of Babylon, Jechonias begot Salathiel. And Salathiel begot Zorobabel" (Matthew 1:1-12)

Matthew gives a family tree of Jesus in Matthew 1. At the 11.th and 12.th line Matthew gives a name called Jechonias which was the king of Juda during the Babylon transmigration.

Here under are another verses from the Old testament;

"As I live, saith the Lord, if Jechonias the son of Joakim the king of Juda were a ring on my right hand, I would pluck him thence.
And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, and into the hand of Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.
And I will send thee, and thy mother that bore thee, into a strange country, in which you were not born, and there you shall die:
And they shall not return into the land, whereunto they lift up their mind to return thither.
Is this man Jechonias an earthen and a broken vessel? is he a vessel wherein there is no pleasure? why are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord: Write this man barren, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for there shall not be a man of his seed that shall sit upon the throne of David, and have power any more in Juda" (Jeremiah 22:24-30)

Now, according to the verses in Jeremiah 22:24-30, a man of Jechonias seed shall not sit upon the throne of David.

Here is the question,

If the verses of Jeremiah are true, Jesus cant be the messiah, because he is a seed of Jechonias in Matthew 1.

How can you explain this contrary?

[Danage]

Final answer; There is no prophets saying in the Old testament as "That he shall be called a Nazarene"(Matthew 2:23)

Here is my second question;

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:
Abraham begot Isaac. And Isaac begot Jacob. And Jacob begot Judas and his brethren.
And Judas begot Phares and Zara of Thamar. And Phares begot Esron. And Esron begot Aram.
And Aram begot Aminadab. And Aminadab begot Naasson. And Naasson begot Salmon.
And Salmon begot Booz of Rahab. And Booz begot Obed of Ruth. And Obed begot Jesse.
And Jesse begot David the king. And David the king begot Solomon, of her that had been the wife of Urias.
And Solomon begot Roboam. And Roboam begot Abia. And Abia begot Asa.
And Asa begot Josaphat. And Josaphat begot Joram. And Joram begot Ozias.
And Ozias begot Joatham. And Joatham begot Achaz. And Achaz begot Ezechias.
And Ezechias begot Manasses. And Manesses begot Amon. And Amon begot Josias. And Josias begot Jechonias and his brethren in the transmigration of Babylon.
And after the transmigration of Babylon, Jechonias begot Salathiel. And Salathiel begot Zorobabel" (Matthew 1:1-12)

Matthew gives a family tree of Jesus in Matthew 1. At the 11.th and 12.th line Matthew gives a name called Jechonias which was the king of Juda during the Babylon transmigration.

Here under is another verses from the Old testament;

"As I live, saith the Lord, if Jechonias the son of Joakim the king of Juda were a ring on my right hand, I would pluck him thence.
And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, and into the hand of Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.
And I will send thee, and thy mother that bore thee, into a strange country, in which you were not born, and there you shall die:
And they shall not return into the land, whereunto they lift up their mind to return thither.
Is this man Jechonias an earthen and a broken vessel? is he a vessel wherein there is no pleasure? why are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord: Write this man barren, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for there shall not be a man of his seed that shall sit upon the throne of David, and have power any more in Juda" (Jeremiah 22:24-30)

Now, according to the verses in Jeremiah 22:24-30, a man of Jechonias seed shall not sit upon the throne of David.

Here is the question,

If the verses of Jeremiah are true, Jesus cant be the messiah, because he is a seed of Jechonias in Matthew 1.

How can you explain this contrary?

This apparent contradiction was one of the arguments I read about that convinced me that Orthodox Judaism was the religion of G-d, and not Christianity.

The line of kings being disinherited did not invalidate the line, only that one of the lines of the kings would not inherit the Throne of David, which Christ now sits on as Messiah (he acquired the throne through birth, the throne that had been empty for hundreds of years).

Notice that it says the king would be barren. This means he may have no more children, hence invalidating his line, except for those who had been born before he became barren. This is just my interpretation, but I hope that it has shed some light on these verses.

[Jesus John]

This apparent contradiction was one of the arguments I read about that convinced me that Orthodox Judaism was the religion of G-d, and not Christianity.

The line of kings being disinherited did not invalidate the line, only that one of the lines of the kings would not inherit the Throne of David, which Christ now sits on as Messiah (he acquired the throne through birth, the throne that had been empty for hundreds of years).

Notice that it says the king would be barren. This means he may have no more children, hence invalidating his line, except for those who had been born before he became barren. This is just my interpretation, but I hope that it has shed some light on these verses

Thank you for your answer Dan,

Your answer is a personal comment held on a different view which belongs to you. We are seeking and questioning the truth without any bias, for this reason, especially for me, forced comments are not worth. The truth is that Matthew is false, or Jeremiah is false, or both.

Matthew gives a family tree of Jesus which begins from Abraham to Joseph. King Jechonias and a member of his family cant be in the line if the prophecy of the coming Messiah is true. The strange thing is that according to Jeremiah 22:24-30 nobody shall sit upon the throne of David, but we see Jechonias and his son Salathiel both written in the family tree by Matthew.

More questions;

1- If Jechonias is barren and nobody will sit upon the throne of David from his family who is Salathiel then? Isnt he siting upon the throne of David in the family tree like his father Jechonias?
2- Luke gives another family tree of Jesus in 3:23-38, we cant see Jechonias and Salathiel in it, why?
3- In Matthew's family tree Jacob is Joseph's father but in Luke's family tree Heli is his father, which is true?
4- If Jesus is a virgin birth by Mary, how does he has a family tree? Is there a secret believe that Joseph was Jesus's real father? If Jesus isnt the blood of Joseph, how do they give the family tree of Joseph? Can this be a work to make a connection to David upon Joseph showing that Jesus is the coming Messiah that can't be done upon Mary that she was a Levites?
5- If Jesus, without any real blood connection, is the blood of David, can I claim that I am also a son of David?

Thank you

[Danage]

Thank you for your answer Dan,

Your answer is a personal comment held on a different view which belongs to you. We are seeking and questioning the truth without any bias, for this reason, especially for me, forced comments are not worth. The truth is that Matthew is false, or Jeremiah is false, or both.

Matthew gives a family tree of Jesus which begins from Abraham to Joseph. King Jechonias and a member of his family cant be in the line if the prophecy of the coming Messiah is true. The strange thing is that according to Jeremiah 22:24-30 nobody shall sit upon the throne of David, but we see Jechonias and his son Salathiel both written in the family tree by Matthew.

More questions;

1- If Jechonias is barren and nobody will sit upon the throne of David from his family who is Salathiel then? Isnt he siting upon the throne of David in the family tree like his father Jechonias?

Salatheil is the son born before Jechonias was barren.


2- Luke gives another family tree of Jesus in 3:23-38, we cant see Jechonias and Salathiel in it, why?

One family tree is Mary's, the other is Joseph's I believe.


3- In Matthew's family tree Jacob is Joseph's father but in Luke's family tree Heli is his father, which is true?

Please tell me where it says Heli is the father in Joseph in Luke's gospel.


4- If Jesus is a virgin birth by Mary, how does he has a family tree? Is there a secret believe that Joseph was Jesus's real father? If Jesus isnt the blood of Joseph, how do they give the family tree of Joseph? Can this be a work to make a connection to David upon Joseph showing that Jesus is the coming Messiah that can't be done upon Mary that she was a Levites?

Many will say that Mary was not a virgin, but it can be argued that Christ had the spiritual blood of Joseph. If Mary and Joseph were the parents of Jesus/Yeshuah then the blood of David comes from both parents. If not, the blood was spiritualy passed on through the marriage of Mary to Joseph.


5- If Jesus, without any real blood connection, is the blood of David, can I claim that I am also a son of David?

Thank you

Jesus/Yeshuah/Isa is the Son of Man, Son of G-d, Son of David, through the Holy Spirit of G-d and through the bloodlines of Mary and Joseph. Unless you possess the blood of the House of Israel then you are not a Son of David.

[Jesus John]

Salatheil is the son born before Jechonias was barren.

I dont think so, please proof it through the Bible. I am saying the opposite and giving proofs from the Bible.

"And the sons of Jeconiah; Assir, Salathiel his son,
Malchiram also, and Pedaiah, and Shenazar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah" (1 Chr 3:17-18)

One family tree is Mary's, the other is Joseph's I believe.

Both of them are Joseph's family tree, you are wrong.

"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ" (Matthew 1:16)

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23)

Please tell me where it says Heli is the father in Joseph in Luke's gospel.

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23)

Many will say that Mary was not a virgin, but it can be argued that Christ had the spiritual blood of Joseph. If Mary and Joseph were the parents of Jesus/Yeshuah then the blood of David comes from both parents. If not, the blood was spiritualy passed on through the marriage of Mary to Joseph.

Saying that Mary was not a virgin is opposite of the Bible, this is not believing on the Bible.

"And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary" (Luke 1:26-27)

"Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34)

The blood come from nothing, there is no physical connection through David's blood to Jesus.

[Danage]

Salatheil is the son born before Jechonias was barren.

I dont think so, please proof it through the Bible. I am saying the opposite and giving proofs from the Bible.

"And the sons of Jeconiah; Assir, Salathiel his son,
Malchiram also, and Pedaiah, and Shenazar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah" (1 Chr 3:17-18)

It doesn't say which are born before Jeconiah became barren, and since he became barren he could have no more children.

One family tree is Mary's, the other is Joseph's I believe.

Both of them are Joseph's family tree, you are wrong.

"And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ" (Matthew 1:16)

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23)

Who is to say that one is not the mother, while the other is the father?

Please tell me where it says Heli is the father in Joseph in Luke's gospel.

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23)

Many will say that Mary was not a virgin, but it can be argued that Christ had the spiritual blood of Joseph. If Mary and Joseph were the parents of Jesus/Yeshuah then the blood of David comes from both parents. If not, the blood was spiritualy passed on through the marriage of Mary to Joseph.

Saying that Mary was not a virgin is opposite of the Bible, this is not believing on the Bible.

"And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary" (Luke 1:26-27)

"Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34)

The blood come from nothing, there is no physical connection through David's blood to Jesus.

I didn't say that I did not believe in the virgin birth. I do, I just presented arguments one way or another. Joseph spiritually passed on his blood, and it is also proved that Mary was a descendent of David too.

Besides, I thought Muslims believed Jesus to be the descendent of David and born of a virgin by the power of G-d.

[Jesus John]

It doesn't say which are born before Jeconiah became barren, and since he became barren he could have no more children.

Jeconiah had children, he and Salathiel is in the family tree of Jesus according to Matthew. This is impossible according to Jeremiah if Jesus is the Messiah. Please give proof which is parallel with your thoughts above.

Who is to say that one is not the mother, while the other is the father?

If so, please give your proof again. I am defending my thoughts with proofs from the Bible, you?

I didn't say that I did not believe in the virgin birth. I do, I just presented arguments one way or another. Joseph spiritually passed on his blood, and it is also proved that Mary was a descendent of David too.

Please give proof that Mary is not a descendent of Levites but David from the Bible. What about the question about the father of Joseph? Did you make a decision, who is his father, Heli or Jacob? Or is this another corruption which you defend that it is few?

Besides, I thought Muslims believed Jesus to be the descendent of David and born of a virgin by the power of G-d.

This subject is about the Bible, not the place which we shall consider Islamic beliefs

As I explained in my first post, Biblical proof is important for me, not emotions or thoughts accepted with fully bias.

Thank you

[Jesus John]

Here under are other questions;

"But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins.
Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying:
Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS" (Matthew 1:20-25)

In my Turkish Bible there is an explanation about the name Jesus that it means "God saves"

Jesus means; God saves
Emmanuel means; God with us

Is this two name the same name? If the prophecy should fullfilled where is the name Emmanuel?
To the Trinitarians; If the child (be careful - no logos) is called "God is with us" or "God saves" how can he be a God?

The prophet saying is referred to Isaiah 7:14

Lets look to the verse;

"And it came to pass in the days of Achaz the son of Joathan, the son of Ozias, king of Juda, that Rasin king of Syria, and Phacee the son of Romelia king of Israel, came up to Jerusalem, to fight against it: but they could not prevail over it.

And they told the house of David, saying: Syria hath rested upon Ephraim, and his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the woods are moved with the wind.
And the Lord said to Isaias: Go forth to meet Achaz, thou and Jasub thy son that is left, to the conduit of the upper pool, a in the way of the fuller's held.
And thou shalt say to him: See thou be quiet: fear not, and let not thy heart be afraid of the two tails of these fire brands, smoking with the wrath of the fury of Rasin king of Syria, end of the son of Romelia.
Because Syria hath taken counsel against thee, unto the evil of Ephraim and the son of Romelia, saying:
Let us go up to Juda, and rouse it up, and draw it away to us, and make the son of Tabeel king in the midst thereof.
Thus saith the Lord God: It shall not stand, and this shall not be.
But the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Basin: and within threescore and five years, Ephraim shall cease to be a people:
And the head of Ephraim is Samaria and the head of Samaria the son of Romelia. If you will not believe, you shall not continue.
And the Lord spoke again to Achaz, saying:
Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God either unto the depth of hell, or unto the height above.
And Achaz said: I will not ask, and I will not tempt the Lord.
And he said: Hear ye therefore, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to be grievous to men, that you are grievous to my God also?
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.
He shall eat butter and honey, that he may know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good.
For before the child know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good, the land which thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of the face of her two kings"(Isaiah 7:1-16)

This story is about the king of Juda called Achaz. He had enemies called Rasin and Phacee. They planned to conquer Jerusalem. The nation of Juda became afraid of them, for this reason God gave them a sign about forsaking from their enemies to be not afraid.

There is no interest and connection with Jesus. With which reason can this event referred to Jesus?

This kind of parted prophet sayings are lots of in the Bible, why? Is this a work to make Jesus the coming Messiah through the Old testament?

Here is another example about this;

"And after they were departed, behold an angel of the Lord appeared in sleep to Joseph, saying: Arise, and take the child and his mother, and fly into Egypt: and be there until I shall tell thee. For it will come to pass that Herod will seek the child to destroy him.
Who arose, and took the child and his mother by night, and retired into Egypt: and he was there until the death of Herod: That it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matthew 2:13-15)

The prophet saying is referred to Hosea 11:1

Lets look to the verse;

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1)

The verse is about Israel not about Jesus. There is no interest and connection with Jesus.

I will go on if God will leave.

Thank you

[Jesus John]

Who visited Jesus in his born first?

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way" (Matthew 2:1-12)

Matthew says "wise men from the east"

"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them" (Luke 2:8-20)

Luke says "shepherds"

There is no information about the wise men in Luke, also there is no information about the shepherds in Matthew. Which is true?

Did Jesus went to Egypt?

"And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,
In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.
And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.
But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene" (Matthew 2:13-23)

Matthew says that after the visit of the wise men an angel of God came to Joseph's dream and said to him to take his family and to go to Egypt. Joseph, Mary and Jesus suddenly arised by night and began to travel to Egypt. They didnt turn back till Joseph saw the angel again in his dream from Egypt.

Now Luke;

"And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
(As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him" (Luke 2:21-39)

Luke gives no information about traveling to Egypt. Everything is normal and at the 8.th day Joseph and Mary goes to Jerusalem to present Jesus to God according to the Mosaic Law. After the presentation they turn back to Nazareth.

Now, which is true? Did Jesus went to Egypt or not? If not, who did this big fault?

Can you see the similarity between the story of Moses and Jesus which is told by Matthew in his gospel?

The historians gives no information about a child slew in Herod's time.

These questions must be answered, if the gospels are insipered by God in the control of the Holy Spirit, what are these contradictions?

Thank you

[Danage]

Here under are other questions;

"But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins.
Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying:
Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS" (Matthew 1:20-25)

In my Turkish Bible there is an explanation about the name Jesus that it means "God saves"

Jesus means; God saves
Emmanuel means; God with us

Is this two name the same name? If the prophecy should fullfilled where is the name Emmanuel?
To the Trinitarians; If the child (be careful - no logos) is called "God is with us" or "God saves" how can he be a God?

The prophet saying is referred to Isaiah 7:14

Jesus Christ is Immanuel, for both refer to G-d. Jesus comes from the Hebrew name, Yeshuah, meaning salvation.


Lets look to the verse;

"And it came to pass in the days of Achaz the son of Joathan, the son of Ozias, king of Juda, that Rasin king of Syria, and Phacee the son of Romelia king of Israel, came up to Jerusalem, to fight against it: but they could not prevail over it.

And they told the house of David, saying: Syria hath rested upon Ephraim, and his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the woods are moved with the wind.
And the Lord said to Isaias: Go forth to meet Achaz, thou and Jasub thy son that is left, to the conduit of the upper pool, a in the way of the fuller's held.
And thou shalt say to him: See thou be quiet: fear not, and let not thy heart be afraid of the two tails of these fire brands, smoking with the wrath of the fury of Rasin king of Syria, end of the son of Romelia.
Because Syria hath taken counsel against thee, unto the evil of Ephraim and the son of Romelia, saying:
Let us go up to Juda, and rouse it up, and draw it away to us, and make the son of Tabeel king in the midst thereof.
Thus saith the Lord God: It shall not stand, and this shall not be.
But the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Basin: and within threescore and five years, Ephraim shall cease to be a people:
And the head of Ephraim is Samaria and the head of Samaria the son of Romelia. If you will not believe, you shall not continue.
And the Lord spoke again to Achaz, saying:
Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God either unto the depth of hell, or unto the height above.
And Achaz said: I will not ask, and I will not tempt the Lord.
And he said: Hear ye therefore, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to be grievous to men, that you are grievous to my God also?
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.
He shall eat butter and honey, that he may know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good.
For before the child know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good, the land which thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of the face of her two kings"(Isaiah 7:1-16)

This story is about the king of Juda called Achaz. He had enemies called Rasin and Phacee. They planned to conquer Jerusalem. The nation of Juda became afraid of them, for this reason God gave them a sign about forsaking from their enemies to be not afraid.

There is no interest and connection with Jesus. With which reason can this event referred to Jesus?

This kind of parted prophet sayings are lots of in the Bible, why? Is this a work to make Jesus the coming Messiah through the Old testament?

Here is another example about this;

"And after they were departed, behold an angel of the Lord appeared in sleep to Joseph, saying: Arise, and take the child and his mother, and fly into Egypt: and be there until I shall tell thee. For it will come to pass that Herod will seek the child to destroy him.
Who arose, and took the child and his mother by night, and retired into Egypt: and he was there until the death of Herod: That it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matthew 2:13-15)

The prophet saying is referred to Hosea 11:1

Lets look to the verse;

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt" (Hosea 11:1)

The verse is about Israel not about Jesus. There is no interest and connection with Jesus.

I will go on if God will leave.

Thank you

I find it a bit insulting that you intend to debunk the Bible on a Christian message board. The majority of the people on this board are Christians, and so we believe the Bible is infallible and without serious error. We are mostly Arian Catholics (myself included) and Biblical Unitarians and so I find it a bit insulting that you indeed to destroy the Bible's credibility when I (and we) do not intend to destroy the credibility of the Qu'ran. Hosea 11:1 does refer to Jesus, for Jesus was the Son of G-d.



Who visited Jesus in his born first?

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way" (Matthew 2:1-12)

Matthew says "wise men from the east"

"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them" (Luke 2:8-20)

Luke says "shepherds"

There is no information about the wise men in Luke, also there is no information about the shepherds in Matthew. Which is true?


Both are true. The shepherds came first in 3 or 4 B.C.E. The Zoroastrian Magi came in 2 B.C.E. when Jesus was growing up, but still a baby.


Did Jesus went to Egypt?

"And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,
In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.
And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.
But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene" (Matthew 2:13-23)

Matthew says that after the visit of the wise men an angel of God came to Joseph's dream and said to him to take his family and to go to Egypt. Joseph, Mary and Jesus suddenly arised by night and began to travel to Egypt. They didnt turn back till Joseph saw the angel again in his dream from Egypt.

Now Luke;

"And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
(As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
(Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him" (Luke 2:21-39)

Luke gives no information about traveling to Egypt. Everything is normal and at the 8.th day Joseph and Mary goes to Jerusalem to present Jesus to God according to the Mosaic Law. After the presentation they turn back to Nazareth.

Now, which is true? Did Jesus went to Egypt or not? If not, who did this big fault?

Can you see the similarity between the story of Moses and Jesus which is told by Matthew in his gospel?

The historians gives no information about a child slew in Herod's time.

These questions must be answered, if the gospels are insipered by God in the control of the Holy Spirit, what are these contradictions?

Thank you

Jesus did indeed go to Egypt, and then came out of it, just as prophecy stated he would. Just because the story is not in one Gospel or another does not mean that the story is false, it means that the apostle devoted more time and energy into writing about the event.

[Jesus John]

I am writing my thoughts in this forum over 1 year. I dont have to explain myself, I do believe that people know me.

What I have written in this topic is about the Bible. I am reading the Bible and asking questions about it. Dont forget that I am not an Arian Catholic, Roman Catholic or etc. For this reason I can read the Bible in an objective way. You and people like you are reacting in the same way, I cant see any differences between you. When they have nothing to say, they begin to say "You are blaming my faith/This is blasphemy or insult to my faith" The responsible people of the churces in Turkey are also afraid to question the Bible. When I ask a question about it they stop the communication with me, why? Does asking a question offend them or are they afraid?

Most of the non-Muslims which I spoke said lots of disgusting things about the Qur'an, Muhammmad (Pbuh) etc. Did I say anything to them, no!

For me, if my faith is true I am not afraid of questioning it because I am strong, no religion no thought can destroy it. If you believe that the Bible is inspired from God under the control of the Holy spirit, then you have to give answers backed by Biblical proofs instead of emotional answers.

What you have said in the answers has no Biblical proof, this are your feelings, emotions.

If there are prophet sayings in the Old testament like "That he shall be called Nazarene" give Biblical proof,

If Jesus is a virgin birth, why is there a family tree of Jesus which belongs to Joseph while he is not his real blood, give Biblical proof,

If Jesus is the expected Messiah from the family tree of David (Juda) how can Jeconiah be in this tree according to Jeremiah, give Biblical proof,

If Jeconiah is barren and had no child in the family tree of David after hisself, who is Salathiel then, give Biblical proof,

If Joseph's father was called Jacob in Matthew's family tree, who is called Heli in Luke's family tree, which is true, give Biblical proof,

If the family tree of Matthew belongs to Joseph and Luke's family tree belongs to Mary, or the reverse, give Biblical proof,

If Mary is a descent of Juda as you say instead of Levi as I defend, give Biblical proof,

If Emmanuel and Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as I say the opposite, give Biblical proof,

If the referred verse about Emmanuel (Isaiah 7:14) is about Jesus, give Biblical proof,

If the referred verse about calling the son of Egypt (Hosea 11:1) is not about Israel but Jesus, give Biblical proof,

If the wise men and shepherds are both first visitors at the born of Jesus, give Biblical proof,

If Jesus went to Egypt by nightly according to Matthew and stayed for a long time in there till the death of Herod, didnt went to Jerusalem in the 8.th day after his birth and didnt turn back in a normal way again to Nazareth instead of Egypt after this event according to Luke, give Biblical proof,

Thank you

[Danage]

If there are prophet sayings in the Old testament like "That he shall be called Nazarene" give Biblical proof,
There is no Biblical proof.
If Jesus is a virgin birth, why is there a family tree of Jesus which belongs to Joseph while he is not his real blood, give Biblical proof,

Now, I'm not a typical Arian Catholic. I believe in the virgin birth, but it is generally accepted by scholars that the blood was passed on spiritually.

Jesus Christ was bound never to have a father as referenced by Isaiah 7:14 (Behold a virgin (young woman) shall be with child and shall call his name Immanuel). Now I will admit that when I had Western Orthodox Jewish beliefs I believed the name of Immanuel was the actual Messiah's name, but I now believe that Immanuel is a title of Jesus, for he was named (bestowed the title of) Immanuel.

If Jesus is the expected Messiah from the family tree of David (Juda) how can Jeconiah be in this tree according to Jeremiah, give Biblical proof,

If it is in the family tree then it is a belief of the church that it is accepted as canon I believe.

If Jeconiah is barren and had no child in the family tree of David after hisself, who is Salathiel then, give Biblical proof,

I have no explanation other than the one I previously gave. Perhaps the Archbishop has an answer.

If Joseph's father was called Jacob in Matthew's family tree, who is called Heli in Luke's family tree, which is true, give Biblical proof,

Heli could be the mother of Joseph or another name for Jacob.

If the family tree of Matthew belongs to Joseph and Luke's family tree belongs to Mary, or the reverse, give Biblical proof,

See above.

If Mary is a descent of Juda as you say instead of Levi as I defend, give Biblical proof,

See above.

If Emmanuel and Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as I say the opposite, give Biblical proof,

I view Immanuel as being a title, as above.

If the referred verse about Emmanuel (Isaiah 7:14) is about Jesus, give Biblical proof,

As above.

If the referred verse about calling the son of Egypt (Hosea 11:1) is not about Israel but Jesus, give Biblical proof,

My interpretation is one found throughout the Christian world, both apostate and apostolic.

If the wise men and shepherds are both first visitors at the born of Jesus, give Biblical proof,

As I said before, just because the story isn't in this gospel or that gospel does not make it untrue. There is historical evidence that the three wise men, the Zoroastrian Magi, did indeed exist and visit both King Herod and King Jesus.

If Jesus went to Egypt by nightly according to Matthew and stayed for a long time in there till the death of Herod, didnt went to Jerusalem in the 8.th day after his birth and didnt turn back in a normal way again to Nazareth instead of Egypt after this event according to Luke, give Biblical proof,

Thank you

The story only appearing in this gospel does not make it untrue.

[Danage]

One thing I might add is that Jesus Christ, before his conception on Earth, was an Archangel called Immanuel and the name Immanuel is also related to his title of Son of G-d.