Been confessed by Jesus (Pbuh)

[Jesus John]

Dear Brothers,

When I read the Bible (the gospel of Matthew) I see that till the 10 th. section there is no information about dying on the cross for our sins and resurrection. Opposite of this, Jesus say;

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock" (Matthew 7:24-25)

"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33)

Is there any condition to believe about dying on the cross and resurrection for the confess of Jesus (Pbuh)?

The teachings of Jesus (Pbuh) from the 5.th section till the 10.th is %95 same in Islam, if we obey this rules arent we a wise man which built his house upon a rock?

Thank you,

Love,

Oguzhan

[Danage]

Dear Brothers,

When I read the Bible (the gospel of Matthew) I see that till the 10 th. section there is no information about dying on the cross for our sins and resurrection. Opposite of this, Jesus say;

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock" (Matthew 7:24-25)

"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32-33)

Is there any condition to believe about dying on the cross and resurrection for the confess of Jesus (Pbuh)?

The teachings of Jesus (Pbuh) from the 5.th section till the 10.th is %95 same in Islam, if we obey this rules aren't we a wise man which built his house upon a rock?

Thank you,

Love,

Oguzhan

The sacrifice was given unconditionally I think. To receive the gift of eternal life you must accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Only through Jesus Christ are we saved. To accept the free gift of eternal life one must be baptised and keep to the tenets of the true church of Christ on Earth.

Jesus Christ was our Passover Lamb. He cancelled the sacrifices of the Temple through his sacrifice of his life.

[Jesus John]

There is no preconditions for the confess of Jesus (Pbuh) about sacrifice on the cross or resurrection in the verse. He doesnt say anything about this.

According to your reply, people who obey the teachings of Jesus (Pbuh) and confess him according the verses between the 5.th and 10.th sections are called wise men but are not the believers of him! How can person called a wise man and an unbeliever at the same time?

[Postulare42]

We are called to return to the Father by accepting the easy yoke and light burden of the discipline of Jesus; to admit this relationship and demonstrate it through thought , word and deed; and to bear much fruit, thereby, within ourselves and in our relationships with others. In this, as adopted children of Israel, we accept the responsiblity to re-effectuate the "healing of the world" as the leaven and "salt of the earth".

[Jesus John]

"But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:40-43)

Jesus (Pbuh) said to the malefactor, without no precondition, that he should be in Paradise! Who can claim that the malefactor believed on the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus? Who gives the decision about believing on Jesus like this?

"And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question" (Mark 12:28-34)

Does Jesus teach that he has to believe on his sacrifice and resurrection to be in the kingdom of God?

Please give a reasonable and persuasion answer.

Oguzhan

[Postulare42]

Brother,

A very old tradition in Jewish teaching (and the earliest members of the Jesus movement were definitely Jewish) was to tell stories that contrasted two different behaviors.

The account that you cite, is usually called "the story of the good thief."

In this story there are seven basic points to be made.

The first is found in the contrast between the two thiefs' attitudes about their sins.

The second is how those attitudes influence the relationship of the Father to a repentant heart.

The third is that our elder brother Jesus was crucified even though he was blameless or "without blemish".

A fourth point might also be drawn from this account . . . that a repentant heart is the only true rebuke necessary for sin.

A fifth point is that if the repentance is true, and is witnessed by an honest and heartfelt acknowledgement of the justice of the consequences, then even repentence at the point of death is welcomed by the Father.

A sixth point is that, even in the extremity of torture and death, Jesus continued in the mission he was sent to accomplish...

"...to bear witness to the truth..." that the Father's love and forgiveness are eternal for all who are truly repentant.

The seventh point is that there is a paradise of love and forgiveness that exists for those who've purified their hearts through " ...a humble and contrite heart..."

Luke 18:10-14

Matthew 20:1-16



In true Jewish tradition and style, the teaching is presented in the form of contrasts.

[Postulare42]

Parenthetical to the answer to your question, which I will resume soon, I have a mirror of the same question for you:

Is it necessary to believe that Mohammed was a prophet in order to find the Father's forgiveness and enter into paradise?

[Danage]

"But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:40-43)

Jesus (Pbuh) said to the malefactor, without no precondition, that he should be in Paradise! Who can claim that the malefactor believed on the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus? Who gives the decision about believing on Jesus like this?

"And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question" (Mark 12:28-34)

Does Jesus teach that he has to believe on his sacrifice and resurrection to be in the kingdom of God?

Please give a reasonable and persuasion answer.

Oguzhan



This verse (Luke 23:43): 'And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise is correctly rendered:
And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The original Bible included no grammar or spaces between words. It is correctly (in English):
ANDJESUSSAIDUNTOHIMVERILYISAYUNTOTHEETODAYSHALTTHO UBEWITHMEINPARADISE
Spaces and grammar were only added into translations and should be put thus:
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
This is how I interpret the above verse.

He says they shall be with him in paradise because they will, or have, confessed his name and the name of G-d. To accept Jesus Christ as the last prophet is also required, for he does not say there is to be another prophet after him.

[Postulare42]

Matthew 7:21

yet also:

Matthew 5:20

:rolleyes:

[Danage]

Matthew 7:21

yet also:

Matthew 5:20

:rolleyes:

I forgot about those verses. I agree with Postulare42 on this. Those who do G-d's will shall enter Heaven, i.e. the true Biblical Unitarian and Arian Christians.

[Jesus John]

Dear Postulare42,

Thank you for calling me "Brother" this made me very happy, I wish from our Almighty God to make you happy as you made me (Amen)

In my last posts I said that I often read the Bible. I want to say that the chapters of the Bible are most of Matthew, Mark and Luke.

I am searching and questioning, in all possibilities, the early Christianity and the teachings of Jesus (Pbuh)

When I read the Bible I can see that there are lots of parallel teachings/orders with Islam. I am a Muslim but I can say that I am also a Christian. Not in the meaning which the Christian era accept today, in the meaning of the words preached in the Bible by Jesus. I believe in a "Jesus" which is been told in the Qur'an and the Bible together. Except some little differences, I cant see any difference in the "Jesus" character which are been told in the Qur'an and Bible.

I can see and understand, in God's grace, the meanings of what Jesus wanted to tell from his words. I do not need anyone to understand Jesus.

Jesus didnt teached that believing on him should be believing through the sacrifice and resurrection. This is Paul's faith which has affected and poisoned all of the Christian era. I refuse Paul and dont believe that he was a friendly Christian. The Gospels which were chosen in the Nicea counsil were affected from his letters. Especially the chapters about the sacrifice and resurrection. The first gospel (Mark) was written 30-35 years after Jesus. The last (John) was written 65-70 years after Jesus. The first written sourches of the Christian era are the letters of Paul. The authors of the Gospels used the letters of Paul as the first source.

I will write my other thougths about this important subject as God will give possibility.

If I have offened you, please forgive me.

Love,

Oguzhan

P.S: Dear Postulare42, I will give an answer about your question as soon as possible. Dear Dan, I also thank you for giving an answer for my question

[Danage]

Dear Postulare42,

Thank you for calling me "Brother" this made me very happy, I wish from our Almighty God to make you happy as you made me (Amen)

In my last posts I said that I often read the Bible. I want to say that the chapters of the Bible are most of Matthew, Mark and Luke.

I am searching and questioning, in all possibilities, the early Christianity and the teachings of Jesus (Pbuh)

When I read the Bible I can see that there are lots of parallel teachings/orders with Islam. I am a Muslim but I can say that I am also a Christian. Not in the meaning which the Christian era accept today, in the meaning of the words preached in the Bible by Jesus. I believe in a "Jesus" which is been told in the Qur'an and the Bible together. Except some little differences, I cant see any difference in the "Jesus" character which are been told in the Qur'an and Bible.

I can see and understand, in God's grace, the meanings of what Jesus wanted to tell from his words. I do not need anyone to understand Jesus.

Jesus didnt teached that believing on him should be believing through the sacrifice and resurrection. This is Paul's faith which has affected and poisoned all of the Christian era. I refuse Paul and dont believe that he was a friendly Christian. The Gospels which were chosen in the Nicea counsil were affected from his letters. Especially the chapters about the sacrifice and resurrection. The first gospel (Mark) was written 30-35 years after Jesus. The last (John) was written 65-70 years after Jesus. The first written sourches of the Christian era are the letters of Paul. The authors of the Gospels used the letters of Paul as the first source.

I will write my other thougths about this important subject as God will give possibility.

If I have offened you, please forgive me.

Love,

Oguzhan

P.S: Dear Postulare42, I will give an answer about your question as soon as possible. Dear Dan, I also thank you for giving an answer for my question

Oguzhan,

Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, just as Peter was Apostle to the Jews.

The death and resurrection of Christ is a belief shared by all Christians, both true and false, so to be a Christian one must accept the account of the Gospels, and the Letters of Paul, along with every single book of the Bible, of which there is no equal, or superior, book to the Bible (the Bible having no equal is not a belief of the Latter-day Saints/Mormons however they do believe in the death and resurrection of Christ, as does the rest of Christianity and Christendom).

The true Christians, however, deny Christ's supposed divinity, as Jews and Muslims also believe (Jesus was not a god, or a part thereof).

[Jesus John]

Dear Dan,

You said "Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, just as Peter was Apostle to the Jews"

Lets look in the Bible;

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (Galatians 2:7-9)

"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe" (Acts 15:7)

Now, which is true?

[Postulare42]

My Islamic Brother,

That was indeed a fine posing! Ha Ha! You have insight into the minds of the time. I can tell. Bravo ! I am in general agreement with you in many things; but I am not ready to radically demonise Saul/Paul or his students. Human nature can explain most of what seems to have happened.

Also, I am of the belief that the ancestors of early fathers of Islam were influenced in their beliefs about Judaism in general, Jesus in particular, through refugees from the destruction of Jerusalem, and from the many Jewish and early christian traders who traded throughout the region.

It has been demonstrated here, and in many other places, that early christianity had very many thought systems. The true scion of the teachings of Jesus was the Jerusalem community, many of whom fled Eastward into what is now Jordan, and Southward into the Arabian Peninsula . . . as a far from Rome as they could get. After 5 centuries, the word-of-mouth stories of Jesus would shift and change, especially under the influence of Jewish vocal contradictions. Stories change as they travel, especially in storytelling cultures that have an oral tradition steeped in myths.

Have you read Josephus the historian ? He was a non-christian Jew who wrote a history of the people of the time for the Romans. He is very enlightening, indeed.

[Danage]

demonstrate it through thought , word and deed

This reminds me of the Zarathushtri/Zoroastrian concept of: Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds. How very true that is.