Greetings from Finland, and an enquiry

[dark_knight]

Greetings in Jesus' name.

My name is Henrik. I am soon 24 year old "lay" preacher and amateur theologist. I lead a Bible study ecclesia of about 6 members in my home city of 130 000 pop.

I have been raised as a Unitarian, but for various reasons, disfellowshipped some 2 and a half years ago. I have theologically, and otherwise greatly emancipated from the theology I was raised with, and am now an independent Christian. Still, one good thing I've kept from the JW's is the non-trinitarianism.

To get to the point, I want to say I am interested very much about your Church. I even would like to join your communion, perhaps, if we can come into agreement with some things. There are some theological issues, however, I want to discuss with you, and for now, I name some of these, and hope you to tell how greatly you think they would hinder our possible cooperation or me joining you. (Some of these maybe in agreemnt with you, but I do not know it yet).

- I believe in universal ressurection in a Kingdom of God on Earth. I further believe that everyone there will get their real chance for salvation. (1.Tim.4:10, 1.John 2:2). Christians will be joint-heirs of Christ, most likely in earth also. (Rev.5:10,11).

- I reject the infant baptism as an interference to Free Choise, and unscriptural and heathenish practice. Even so, I do not condemn others for giving it, not understanding it.

- I believe that Bible teaches that the nature of the dead is an unconsicious state. Furthermore, there is no literal hell.
This is provided for us mostly in the book of Ecclesiastes.

- I believe that the pastor (elder, priest, or whatever we name them) of the congregation does not have to have formal theological training, as the apostoles did not, but were humble and simple man.

- I believe we ought to use and confess the Name (haShem) of God, which is YHWH, most likely spelled 'Yahweh'. As it is written in the books of Joel, Acts and Romans "Whoever calls upon the name of the LORD (YHWH, not Adonai), will be saved".

- I believe in salvation by grace, thru faith in the precious blood of Messiah. Good works give us no merit, but only show that our faith is genuine.

- I believe that Jesus the Messiah/Christ was prior to his incarnation the personal entity called the Wisdom and the Word (Logos), by whom all things were created. I do not believe that Jesus is an angel (i.e Michael) in particular sense, but rather an "emanated" being from God - still with his own substance, as the essential of being the "same substance of God" is losed, when God puts some of his substance away by creating something. Neverthless all things are in a way, part of God, but still not composing him (as in pantheist theology).

- I believe that Jesus put away his heavenly nature and took a complete form and nature of man, when he incarnated. In other words, Jesus was, when he walked on earth prior his ressurection, a 100% man - but without sin, as Adam was prior his fall. This is showed us in the Scriptures that tell as that Jesus gave him self as a "lutron anti", or the corresponding price, exactly equal amount - i.e Adam the perfect man / Jesus the perfect man. Jesus was not a nephilim, or a god or the God. He was man, only with his "prior life" in heaven.

Other thing, would you have in mind to found an Arian Catholic knightly order, I would be even more enthrilled! ;)

Thank you and God bless you.

Yours,

bro.Henrik

[Jason]

Henrik,

So do you like the Christological aspect of Arianism more than anything else?

[dark_knight]

Though I come from that background, I've been introducing myself thorougly to many traditions, and am quite open to everything - thus the point, which you quite correctly pointed out, wouldn't necessarely be a problem. And if it would, that's why I'm asking these things;)

God Bless

[Archbishop Michael-John]

Dear Henrik,

It is a pleasure to welcome you to the Communion of the Arian Catholic Church, and I always welcome questions and feed back from people who are interested in Arian Catholicism.

Theological Issues
I believe that you have a healthy appetite for theological truth and your views do seem to fall much in line with those of Arian Catholicism. Yes - the Arian Catholic Church is Orthodox as Christ's Church is irreformable and we must strive to keep in line with His teachings at any length. This also means careful understanding of the scriptures and their application with logic and reason.

Infant Baptism
We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. Jesus Christ himself was "about 30" years old (Luke 3:23) when he was Baptised, I firmly believe that the example has been set for Baptism to be an important ceremony to be performed in adulthood or at least early adulthood. We recognise the presentation at a Church or temple of a baby or child as a Sacrament. There are however certain circumstances when it is necessary for Baptism to be administered early and some parents may have reason to want to baptise their children young, in which case I would be happy to perform this service.

Eschatology and Salvation
Your belief in the resurrection of the Kingdom of God on Earth has foundations in eschatology however I would be cautious as to how such prophecies are interpreted although this does not conflict with the Church. At judgement everyone will be given the chance for the propitiation of their sins; although few will be chosen.

Hell (Hades or Gehenna)
The word "Hell" used in the bible is often intertwined with the word "Grave" and the common belief in the early Church is that "Hell" is a state of temporary existence for the cleansing of souls by fire (Matt 5:29-30, 22:13, 25:31-46, Luke 16:23-31, Mark 9:43-8) and for the reparation of souls that lack supernatural grace through Baptism (Origen and Augustine). The eternity of Hell was viewed as a state of non-existence for souls that do not accept God (Matt 22:14 "Many are called, but few are chosen"). The Roman Catholic church has since performed ecumenical gymnastics in trying to explain limbo and purgatory and has recently exercised it's infallibility card to perform a U-turn over the church's belief of the fate of the souls of unbaptised children!

In death we take with us the essence of the life we have lived and all souls are judged by our formidable, though good and loving God; one must ask one's self is it plausible to believe that God could allow anyone an eternity of misery on account of decisions taken in one brief lifetime? The Roman church has used the doctrine of Hell to instil fear into people and has argued that it was needed to restrain the wicked and ensure civil order. However we must bear in mind that life is no trial run! This is the real thing, for which we shall all be judged!


Theological Training for ClergyClergy - Clerks in Holy Orders
I will begin by clearing up some confusion over the naming convention of our clergy: Candidates who have previous pastoral experience I would acknowledge as Subdeacons while they are awaiting formal ordination (or ordination sub conditione) as Deacons. We are happy to ordain both men and women to the Diaconate. The term Deacon means servant, and their duty is to assist the Presbyter (our term for Priest which was also used by the early Church); we regard Deacons as having completed their basic training and are the apprentices to the Presbyterium. The senior Deacon in a diocese is known as the Archdeacon in accordance with the early Church (other churches use this term for a senior Presbyter). Ordination as a Presbyter gives "Character" to the soul as an accomplished Clerk in Holy Orders; Presbyter means elder. The senior Presbyter in the diocese is the Archpresbyter (similar to that office in the eastern orthodox church). Finally the Episcopate consists of Bishops, Archbishops and one Primate Archbishop; Bishop (from Episcopus/Epi skopos) means overseer.Training
Even the Apostles received training from Jesus although it was not on the same scale as a seminary college, the writings of the Apostles and disciples clearly showed that some of them were well read and were familiar with Christ's teachings. If I had a few £Million I could set up my own seminary college and invite candidates to do an all-expenses paid crash course in Theology. Alas I don't have that luxury but what I do have are people who either have already been trained or who are determined to do what ever it takes to serve God and are ready to follow a distance learning course. Although there is pressure to fast track new Deacons in the Church so that we can quickly meet demands I believe that Deacons should have at least basic training. With candidates' determination and the grace of God they will master the steep learning curve.

Yhwh!
There are some who are reluctant to utter the name of God as His existence is so immense and beyond all human comprehension we cannot quantify Him and His significance in the universe so great that to name Him openly would be a blasphemy! The bible does in fact name "God" 3,968 times (NKJV). In Exodus 3:4 & 15 God told Moses: "I am who I am" (Yahweh); effectively God does not have a personal "name"! Even Jesus addressed God as his father in the personal form using the Aramaic "Abba" (Mark 14:36), Jesus instructed his disciples to address God as "Father" (Matt 6:7-9). There is an interesting passage in the Epistle to the Romans 10:9 - 13 which refers to those who confess with their mouth and believe in their heart the resurrection and that they will be saved. "Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" does not actually refer to God's written "name" but on his authority.


:concucious: 'hyh and Yhwh!
In Exodus 3:14 God told Moses: "'ehyeh 'asher 'ehyeh": "I am that I am" [KJV] / "I am who I am" [NKJV/TNIV*] / "I will be what I will be" [TNIV (*alternative translation)] / "I Will Become whatsoever I please" [Rotherham's Emphasized Bible]. Exodus 3:4 & 15 uses: "Yahweh": "The Lord" [KJV/NKJV/TNIV*] / "I am" [TNIV (*alternative translation)] / "He who becometh" [REB].

It seems evident that in the view of the writer "'ehyeh" and "yahweh" are the same: that God is "'ehyeh", "I will be," when speaking of Himself, and "yahweh," "He will be," when spoken of by others.

Jesus' use of the term "I am" in John 8:58 [KJV/NKJV/TNIV/REB], when suggesting to the Jews that he existed before Abraham, has been used by trinitarians to attempt to prove his divinity, however Jesus (as Immanuel) has existed spiritually since the beginning of time (Book of Proverbs 8:22 - 31).


The Nature of Jesus Christ
The Arian Catholic Church's view on the nature of Christ is well documented (See http://arian-catholic.org/arian/arius.html#conceptchrist (http://arian-catholic.org/arian/arius.html)), we concur that Jesus was physically a human man and spiritually he was the Son of God. The Scriptures called him Immanuel (not Michael), whether he was an Archangel or "an 'emanated' being from God - still with his own substance" we could spend the rest of our lives debating! Essentially he was a messenger of God, bringing a very important message. What are Angels anyway if they aren't "emanated" beings from God - still with their own substance (i.e. created by God)?!

Arian Catholic Order of Knights:krolleyes:
Unfortunately we have no Arian Catholic Knightly Order although this is an interesting idea. There is however an Arian Benedictine Order of which I am also a Lay Oblate. In many respects we are the surviving "Poor Knights of Christ", however to us the Holy Grail IS the Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist which has been passed on apostolically by Bishops through the centuries.

Arian Catholic Laity & Clergy

As you have experience as a Lay Preacher and Pastor I hope you would consider either joining our Laity or applying to join our Clergy. This is something that we should discuss off the forum of course and I invite you to send in completed copies of our new Parishioner's forms and an Ecclesiastical CV, available from...http://arian-catholic.org/arian/membership.pdf (http://arian-catholic.org/arian/membership.pdf)http://arian-catholic.org/arian/Ecclesiastical_CV_form.zip (http://arian-catholic.org/arian/Ecclesiastical_CV_form.zip)
http://arian-catholic.org/arian/ApplicationACC100806.pdf (http://arian-catholic.org/arian/ApplicationACC100806.pdf)
Kind regards and blessings,
In the grace of our Father through Immanuel,

[Jason]

Michael+,

I hope that I didn't come off as rude or said anything inappropriate. Im not a member of the ACC, and I should not have made any assumptions about Henrik's interest in this church.

My sincere apologies.

[Archbishop Michael-John]

Jason,

I note you have amended your post and I'm sure no one has been offended.

You are welcome to join the full Communion of the Arian Catholic Church if you wish, please send in your New Parishioner's form.

Kind regards and blessings,
:reveek:

[dark_knight]

Dear brother Michael John.
I am going to send you some background on me, and some conditions you need to know about me. I'll send via email and snail mail.

-Henrik