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RabbiBarry
14th January 2007, 03:51 AM
Judaism was divided in Jesus time into 23 sects. Not all of the sects were important to the people in Judea, Samaria, and the Gilgal. Those important in those areas were:

Samaritans who were formed after the Royal Cult returned from Babylon. They reject everything but the Torah. They do not accept the Prophets or the Writings.

Zaddoki (Sadducees) who were a part of priests and those who followed them. Most of the members were of the lower priesthood that did not live in Jerusalem and generally were supportive of the common people called the Am Ha Eretz or People of the Land.

Nasoreans who were really a movement composed of the Essene Theologians, the Nasorean common believers, the Zealotes army and the Sicarii commandoes.

Farsi (Pharisees) who were a Babylonian/Persian based party which had come to Judea in the time of Simon the Hasmonean High Priest.

Herodians who were followers of Herod's policy of accomodation and appeasement.

Boethusians who were supporters of the Boethus who had been the founder of the current High Priestly House that held the Temple at Hieropolis in Egypt.

The Hellenists who were those Jews who had assimilated into the Greek culture.

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E., the parties of Judaism in Paelistrina were reduced to three:

The Samaritans: see above

The Rabbinicals which had evolved from the Pharisees and the Nasoreans which had evolved from the Nasorean movement.

Zealotes who were loyal to the idea of overthrowing the Romans and establishing a strict Jewish state.

Today, the Jewish religion is divided into several new sects; they are:

Orthodox which follow the Talmud strictly but have allowed the traditions to change to accomodate the modern world

Conservative which follow many of the traditions and teachings of the Talmud but have updated the religion by eliminating many of the less popular mitzvoth.

Reform Judaism which says that the Meshiach has already come and gone and it was the age of enlightment. They have eliminated most of the Torah from consideration except for the Social Laws.

Chassids who are divided into 77 different branches following the traditions of 77 disciples or disciples of disciples of the Ba'al Shem Tov and are considered heretics.

Reconstructionists who are trying to reconstruct a new Jewish culture for a modern era.

Liberals who have just about jettisoned ideas of the Divine and have created a humanist Judaism

Karaites who are strict followers of the Torah with no recourse to the Talmud.

The Samaritans who remain the same after 2500 years.

Nasoreans who are the modern reconstruction of the Ancient Church of Jerusalem.

brotherkev
17th February 2007, 12:57 AM
I have heard of Shem Tov, a judaic tanakh having some sort of problems, I guess bad translations used...according to the websites I saw that talked about it.

so that is the Chassid sec, hmmm.. ok

RabbiBarry
18th February 2007, 03:43 PM
I have heard of Shem Tov, a judaic tanakh having some sort of problems, I guess bad translations used...according to the websites I saw that talked about it.

so that is the Chassid sec, hmmm.. ok

The Founder of the the Chassidic Sect was the Ba'al Shem Tov, Rabbi Israel. The Shem Tov Matthew is found in a polemic against Christianity written in Spain in the 17th century from an ancient manuscript by a man whose name was Shem Tov. The two are completely different.

dark_knight
4th March 2007, 03:41 PM
Rabbi, what is the connection (or is there a one really) between Iraqi-based religion of Mandeanism and that of the Nasorean Judaism?

RabbiBarry
7th March 2007, 04:12 PM
As near as we can tell from the holy books, the tradition, and the claims made by Mandaean clerics, the Mandaeans were followers of John the Baptist who did not like the teachings of Jesus and left the Nasorean Movement after the death of John.

They say that Jesus was a heretic or even an antichrist. For them, John the Baptist was the Meshiach.

Danage
7th March 2007, 06:02 PM
Does this sect still exist, and how did the Mandaeans argue (if they ever did) for John 'the Baptist' being the Messiah/Maschiach?

Thank you

dark_knight
8th March 2007, 09:16 AM
Dan,

It seems that there are some 50 000 Mandeans, most in Iraq.

RabbiBarry
8th March 2007, 12:45 PM
Mandaean material is on the web. Why don't you read some of it from their point of view.

dark_knight
8th March 2007, 02:20 PM
Dan, Rabbi,

I have read something, but all the sources I found were Gnostic or Secular with only few Mandean.

Here's something

http://www.lexicorient.com/e.o/mandeans.htm

http://www.mandaeans.org

http://www.mandaeanworld.com/who.html

Stephen_Webb
6th November 2007, 06:56 PM
Does this sect still exist, and how did the Mandaeans argue (if they ever did) for John 'the Baptist' being the Messiah/Maschiach?

Thank you

I think that they base most of their argument in the fact that Yahia [John] had a full fledged community, and was the prophet [two prophets at one time doens't make much sense when you concider the nature of Y'shuas and Yahia's mission now does it?], and people were going to Yahia to be absolved of sin [for the remission of sin] and to be accepted into the 'family' of G-d, and this was accomplished through the outward expression of inner conviction that we call baptism. Now, it was that Y'shua also went to Yahia to be baptised - and if Y'shua was G-d, why then would he have to be absolved of sin [this is a powerful argument against trinitarianism as well] - Y'shua went to Yahia to be recieved into the community - Yahia preached a message of fire, brimstone, and repentence and was focused on liberating the chosen people - whereas Y'shua preached that one should love thy enemy [in reference at that time to the Romans], to turn the other cheek - the mandaeans would have followed Yahia to the very end. But because of some 'political' intrigue Yahia was captured and put to death so that the current ruling 'royal' family would be able to protect themselves from the 'invincible Romans' [Herrod's wife and niece/step-daughter were afraid that the romans would kill them if they didnt handle the uprise instigated by Yahia - note that Herrod himself was a fan of Yahia because he believed in him], and after that Y'shua recieved the community...Judas eventually set up and turned Y'shua over, because he felt as though Y'shua was responsible for the death of his former master [Yahia]...[Judas was a member of the Sicarii, the name Ischariot is synonimous with the blade that those zealots carried, and Judas was most definately pro-revolution led by Yahia.]

Postulare42
6th November 2007, 07:48 PM
I am unfamiliar with "Yahia" for "John". I am aware of Jochana ha Mikvaot, though.

Multiple prophets were not uncommon in Jewish history, nor in early Christianity.

Stephen_Webb
6th November 2007, 08:57 PM
I am unfamiliar with "Yahia" for "John". I am aware of Jochana ha Mikvaot, though.

Multiple prophets were not uncommon in Jewish history, nor in early Christianity.

Yahia is John the Baptist who is the same as Yahia-Yuhana to the Mandaeans. In their system, it was Yahia-Yuhana that is one who cures with the blessed water in the jordan, and the leader of the nasoreans/zealot sect. I see your point in there having been 'multiple prophets' at any one time, however two prophets would not preach radically different messages and cause dissention within one community - Now, please also realize that I am only conveying what the mandaeans hold true, this in no way, shape or form represents what I hold true - the original topic question that I replied to was "Does this sect [mandaeans] still exist, and how did the Mandaeans argue (if they ever did) for John 'the Baptist' being the Messiah/Maschiach?" - I was only providing feedback in accordence to what I have leanred about them.

Matt2817
6th November 2007, 09:25 PM
Nicely stated, Stephen. :-)()

In blessing bless,
Wayne Matthew Mari